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“Well Actually, He’s Not Talking to You.” Answering One Critique...New Translation [Catholic Caucus]
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | November 28, 2011 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 11/29/2011 4:01:37 PM PST by Salvation

I, like you, have read with interest the reactions of many to the new translation, after its first week of use. Most of the remarks I have read are quite positive. A smaller, though not insignificant number, are negative, some strikingly so. No need to summarize all the remarks here. I am personally a big fan of the new translation and have carefully and joyfully prepared my congregation for it. Our first Sunday went off without a hitch.

There is one strain of negative reaction I would like to address however, since it goes to the heart of a common misunderstanding of the Liturgy. The negative reaction basically stated is:

I can’t easily understand what Father is saying in those long, run-on sentences. It doesn’t make sense to me and I get lost in all the words.

It is a true fact that the new translation preserves more authentically the sentence structure of the Latin original which, like older English, makes greater use of subordinate clauses. For example, consider the prayer from the first Monday of Advent with subordinate clauses indented,

Keep us alert,
we pray, O Lord our God,
as we await the advent of Christ your Son,
so that,
when he comes and knocks,
he may find us watchful in prayer and exultant in his praise
.

This manner of speaking is more formal and ancient.

The just abrogated translation of 1970 turned the rich sentence structure of the Latin prayers into a series of declarative statements:

Lord our God,
help us to prepare for the coming of Christ your Son.
May he find us waiting,
eager in joyful prayer.

Not only is the language less elaborate and more informal, it also omits the humbly beseeching quality of the Latin, and wholly omits the Scriptural allusion of Jesus standing at the door and knocking (cf Rev 3:20)

Now, if the priest who recites or sings the prayer is careful with the commas, and alters his tone of voice properly, the new translation is quite intelligible, and also quite beautiful. My own mind lit up as I recited the new prayer above, this morning.

That said, it may still be harder for some in the pew to attend the words of the priest, even if it is well spoken, since the use of sentences with subordinate clauses requires the listener to hold one thought, while a subordinate thought is articulated, and then the speaker branches back to the main thought.

So lets grant that it is a little harder.

But here we come to an important insight that, though it is not politically correct, is still true: The priest is not talking to you. He is not directing the prayer to you, and the first purpose of the prayer is not that you understand it perfectly. The prayer is directed to God, (most often, to God the Father). The priest is speaking to God, and is doing so on your behalf, and that of the whole Church. And God is wholly able to understand the prayer, no matter how complicated its structure.

Too often in modern times we have very anthropocentric (man-centered) notions of the Sacred Liturgy. With the return to the vernacular, and mass celebrated toward the people, (neither intrinsically wrong), there is often the wrongful conclusion that the Liturgy is about us, the gathered assembly. Surely there are aspects celebrated on our behalf and for our benefit, especially the Liturgy of the Word and the reception of Holy Communion, but the prayers of the Sacred Liturgy are addressed to and focused on God.

When we understand God as the addressee, the notion of “formalism” in the texts we use makes more sense. One may reasonably argue that, in private prayer, simple and personal words from the heart are most appropriate. But in the Sacred Liturgy, which is both communal and where the words are carefully chosen in accord with ancient practice, nobility and a stately seriousness are important and instinctive. It is God to whom we speak, and our language down through the centuries, in the liturgical context, has been courtly, rich and marked with a sobriety and elevated quality. While this notion was largely set aside in 1970, it has been recovered now.

If the text is less immediately understandable (it need not be) to the human listeners, it must be recalled that we are not the first or intended audience, God is.

Surely intelligibility to the average “pew sitter” is not wholly unimportant, for the Liturgy has a critical teaching role (lex orandi, lex credendi). Further, if the faithful are to join their prayers to that of the celebrant, some degree of intelligibility is helpful. But, frankly, it is not essential. Otherwise the faithful could not validly attend Mass in foreign lands, and the Mass could not be offered in Latin. Likewise young children would be excluded, since many of even the simplest words mean little to them. Full participation in the liturgy is deeper than mere auditory comprehension.

So the central point here is that God is the one to whom our liturgical prayers are directed. This is often forgotten today, and the complaint that the new prayers are “harder to understand” (they are not intrinsically so) belies a premise that “my personal understanding” is the central point. It is not.

I can hear a thousand “yes, but” s coming in the combox. And many of these will be quite valid. Distinctions are important, as is balance.

Intelligibility, while not the most important thing, IS important. And hence, we priests who celebrate the Mass using the new texts, need to work carefully to master the texts so that what we say is not lost in an ungraceful and stumbling proclamation. God and God’s people deserve our best effort.



TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Prayer; Worship
KEYWORDS: advent; catholic; msgrcharlespope; romanmissal
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The Collect, Prayer over the Gifts and Closing Prayer are all addressed to God.

Other prayers, too!

1 posted on 11/29/2011 4:01:48 PM PST by Salvation
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To: Salvation

I really liked the Solemn Blessing at the end of Mass - which, unfortunately, almost no priest said this past Sunday!

May the almighty and merciful God,
by whose grace you have placed your faith
in the First Coming of his Only Begotten Son
and yearn for his coming again,
sanctify you by the radiance of Christ’s Advent
and enrich you with his blessing.
Amen.

As you run the race of this present life,
may he make you firm in faith,
joyful in hope and active in charity.
Amen

So that, rejoicing now with devotion
at the Redeemer’s coming in the flesh,
you may be endowed with the rich reward of eternal life when he comes again in majesty.
Amen.

(I think’s that’s the whole text).


2 posted on 11/29/2011 4:15:16 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: Salvation

And God forbid we understand what it is we are praying,,,,


3 posted on 11/29/2011 4:22:47 PM PST by Craftmore
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To: vladimir998

Our priest did not do the solemn blessing after the First Sunday of Advent Mass, but he always does it on solemnities.


4 posted on 11/29/2011 4:24:16 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

More on the translations ping!


5 posted on 11/29/2011 4:26:40 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Craftmore
See Dick run.

Run, Dick! Run!

6 posted on 11/29/2011 4:36:34 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

LOL!


7 posted on 11/29/2011 4:40:31 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Craftmore

Did you just recently join the Catholic church? I mean, after you realized the snide comments you’ve made about the Catholics and The Church were wrong - did you join?

Otherwise, I don’t know why you are commenting within a Catholic Caucus thread.


8 posted on 11/29/2011 4:42:14 PM PST by warsaw44
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To: Salvation
He is not directing the prayer to you, and the first purpose of the prayer is not that you understand it perfectly.

Amen. I may not understand every word the Priest says or fully understand the meaning of each word, but like the faith of a child, the beauty of the prayer is all I need to become strengthened by God's Presence.

9 posted on 11/29/2011 4:46:36 PM PST by Gerish (Feed your faith and your doubts will starve to death.)
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To: Salvation

I think one could make an additional argument. Although it’s far from being the primary purpose of going to Mass, it won’t hurt if it makes the congregation sit up and think a little, instead of dumbing them down.

How do you learn to understand more complex sentences? By reading them and listening to them. If more people read old-fashioned books to their kids, instead of letting them watch Sesame street, it might make them more capable of real thought, as well as appreciating good books when they get older.


10 posted on 11/29/2011 5:01:28 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Oh, Oh. Look, Look!!

LOL ....

11 posted on 11/29/2011 5:02:22 PM PST by Rashputin (Obama stark, raving, mad, and even his security people know it.)
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To: Salvation
The just abrogated translation of 1970 . . .

This hermeneutic of discontinuity I like.

12 posted on 11/29/2011 5:10:04 PM PST by Oratam
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To: Cicero

**How do you learn to understand more complex sentences? By reading them and listening to them. **

Reminds me of the English lit classes I took with Chaucer, Shakespear, et al.


13 posted on 11/29/2011 5:12:09 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Craftmore

“And God forbid we understand what it is we are praying”

So take a minute and 43 seconds and learn it. It’s not like they’re asking us to get a Ph.D. in particle physics.

Introducing the vernacular was a *disaster.*


14 posted on 11/29/2011 5:12:31 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: vladimir998

The friar who did the 9:00 Mass at our parish used the long form. I liked it too.

And as far as not understanding complex sentences goes, we can’t dumb down our language, liturgical or everyday, to the lowest common denominator. Some thoughts are complex. To simplify the language is to change the thought it represents.


15 posted on 11/29/2011 5:14:27 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: Oratam

It is right and just.


16 posted on 11/29/2011 5:20:49 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Craftmore
God forbid, rather, that we dumb down what we say to God so that the inattentive or those incapable of holding a complex thought in their heads feel like they get it.

Shall we take out all music to suit the deaf and all visual beauty to suit the blind? Shall we reduce the epistles of Paul to the syntax of the Simpsons?

You saw the prayer cited:

Keep us alert,
we pray, O Lord our God,
as we await the advent of Christ your Son,
so that,
when he comes and knocks,
he may find us watchful in prayer and exultant in his praise.

For whom but the inattentive is that too hard to understand? And if they cannot attend to elegance of language, why should we think they will make the required effort even if it is broken in to simple sentences?

How long have you been a Catholic by the way?

17 posted on 11/29/2011 5:21:54 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: Salvation

I like the new translations! While our Church did very little to prepare, implementing the translations last Sunday, we did introduce new music with the correct wording over a month ago. Yes mistakes were made, both by the congregation and the priest, but I found it to be a somewhat bonding experience, as we all tried to learn the new words together.

They placed very nice laminated cards in the pews for people to use until they get to know the new words. I have no memory of the Mass in Latin, so I’m looking forward to all the new texts as the come over the next months, listening for the differences, helping me to pay closer attention!


18 posted on 11/29/2011 5:47:55 PM PST by ODC-GIRL (We live in interesting times)
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To: dsc

i honestly found particle physics to be easier.

Maybe I just don’t have a mind for words and stuff. And the rest of it.


19 posted on 11/29/2011 7:00:39 PM PST by campaignPete R-CT (I will go back to New Hampshire to campaign.)
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To: warsaw44

didja find an interloper?


20 posted on 11/29/2011 7:04:03 PM PST by campaignPete R-CT (I will go back to New Hampshire to campaign.)
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