How Calvinists Spread Holiday Cheer

WSJ ^ | November 18, 2011 | Aaron Belz

[Alex Murphy]

Next Thursday, as the rest of us tuck into our turkey feasts, hundreds of needy families in Southern California will open "Boxes of Love." Delivered by several churches led by Pacific Crossroads in Santa Monica, Calif., the boxes contain ingredients for a Thanksgiving meal for six. They allow impoverished families to skip food lines and neighborhood pantries and enjoy the holiday in their own homes.

What's unusual about the Pacific Crossroads congregation—and what underpins efforts such as Boxes of Love—is its theologically conservative raison d'être. A member church of the Presbyterian Church in America, Pacific Crossroads is committed to Reformation doctrines such as total depravity (every person is born sinful) and limited atonement (salvation is available only to the elect). These beliefs are typically regarded as ugly and inhumane by American culturati. Yet the church's pastor, Rankin Wilbourne, is happy to pepper his sermons with references to Bono and "Jersey Shore," and the church has grown to around 1,500 members from 500 in three years.

[SNIP]

And so in a city more often associated with Calvin Klein, John Calvin's teachings provide a basis for hope. In his commentary on II Corinthians 8, the 16th-century Swiss theologian connected Christians' assurance of salvation with their freedom to give to the poor:

"What makes us more close-handed than we ought to be is when we look too carefully, and too far forward, in contemplating the dangers that may occur—when we are excessively cautious and careful—when we calculate too narrowly what we will require during our whole life, or, in fine, how much we lose when the smallest portion is taken away. The man that depends upon the blessing of the Lord has his mind set free from these trammels and has, at the same time, his hands opened for beneficence."

[magslinger]

You don’t choose Calvin. Calvin chooses you. (/Calvin College joke)

[Siena Dreaming]

I cannot imagine a person saying to God, "I want forgiveness" and God saying to them, "Nope, you're of the non-elect."

If a person truly wants forgiveness, God's spirit is at work in him/her.

[SkyDancer]

I understand that. It’s the Calvinists who don’t.

[Siena Dreaming]

No, Calvinists say that if you believe on Him you are saved i.e. literally rescued from Hell.

[SkyDancer]

Okay, so what’s this pre-destination they keep preaching about saying God pre-destined certain people to Hell and you don’t know if you’re one of them?

[Siena Dreaming]

and you don’t know if you’re one of them?

That's not what they say.

Assurance for the believer is part of the package. If you trust in Christ you can know you are saved.

[SkyDancer]

Predestination, in theology is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God. John Calvin interpreted biblical predestination to mean that God willed eternal damnation for some people and salvation for others.

So again I ask how do you know if you're one of them.

[Judith Anne]

I thought you might like to see this thread. But maybe not.

[Siena Dreaming]

So again I ask how do you know if you're one of them.

I've already answered this.

If faith lives in your heart you are saved.

[smvoice]

Do you want us to just read it? Or discuss it and ping you? I’m never sure, but will respect your request.

[Judith Anne]

Oh, you care what I want?

[SkyDancer]

I was asking a rhetorical question not directed at you but to the statements by Calvin on his theology.

[Siena Dreaming]

I considered your question not just rhetorical, but wanting a response.

The truth of the matter (and what Calvin would say) is that if you have faith you also have salvation.

If you have salvation you will not be going to hell.

[smvoice]

What is wrong with you, really? Did I not just say I would respect your decision?

[metmom]

Next Thursday, as the rest of us tuck into our turkey feasts, hundreds of needy families in Southern California will open "Boxes of Love." Delivered by several churches led by Pacific Crossroads in Santa Monica, Calif., the boxes contain ingredients for a Thanksgiving meal for six. They allow impoverished families to skip food lines and neighborhood pantries and enjoy the holiday in their own homes.

Is there a problem with this?

[swampfox101]

Faith come by hearing....!

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:16-18

Can’t have regeneration unless you first hear.

The gospel saves us. Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”[b]

[Siena Dreaming]

calvinism is a perfect theology for lazy preachers, no need to visit, no need to evangelize, no need for missions...God will take care of them...or not.

Not really. True calvinism would say obey God in all things, but it can certainly be twisted to other ends as is any theology.

God commands believers to reach out because God works through the believer to reach the unbeliever.

This story is a case in point...Calvinists who are reaching out to the needy, many of whom presumably are unbelievers.

[ExSoldier]

My church belongs to Presbyterian PCA. One of the main reasons for the formation of PCA during the 1960s was over political activism by the larger and far more liberal parent church, Presbyterian USA. PCA formed and splintered off to teach the inerrant word of God and stay out of political issues like gun control (which was a specific sticking point at the time). Notice the USA "parent" stayed on the liberal line, over time advocating more and more extreme positions besides gun control like gay marriage, adoption and ordination of clergy. PCA is small but we're solid and conservative. PCA seems to be heavily present in the south, as far as I can determine.

[swampfox101]

“If a person truly wants forgiveness, God’s spirit is at work in him/her.”

Holy Spirit can’t speak of His own authority, only thru. Christ.

John 16:12-15
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.[c]

Hebrews 1:1 God talks to us thru His son, not the Spirit.
Hebrew 1:1-2
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

You and I are saved by words:

Acts 11:14
who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved

Rom 1:16 Words the gospel God’s word. That what saves us.

Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

[circlecity]

"Can’t have regeneration unless you first hear."

And you can't hear unless God specifically opens your ears to do so. He who has ears let him hear. Yes, God uses the preaching of the Gospel to implement his preordained decisions regarding salvation. It is his chosen method. This way a single act works to both sanctify the evangelist and justify the sinner.