Posted on 10/31/2011 3:34:07 PM PDT by Colofornian
Human communication with the dead, or necromancy, is never encouraged in the Bible and is always condemned (1 Samuel 15:23, 28:6ff). Such a practice was punishable by death (1 Samuel 28:9) in theocratic Israel. Despite these grave warnings, many temple Mormons look forward with great anticipation to possibly being visited by spirits of the dead. In fact, there are a number of recorded sightings of alleged dead spirits who have visited Mormons in LDS temples.
Prior to the dedication of the San Diego temple in 1993, local Mormon families were given a packet titled Family Temple Preparation Material. Included in this written material were about seven pages devoted to "true stories" of temple patrons who were visited by the dead.
Fourth Mormon Prophet Wilford Woodruff told followers in 1887, "The dead will be after you, they will seek after you as they have after us in St. George (Journal of Discourses 19:229). Woodruff is referring to the St. George temple in southern Utah. He also stated, “I will here say that two weeks before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, "You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized from it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God. These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and they waited on me for two days and two nights” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, p.160).
In his book titled Temple Manifestations, Mormon writer Joseph Heinerman lists several accounts of dead spirits visiting patrons in LDS temples. However, such encounters are never condoned by the Bible and as such, should be shunned rather than encouraged.
Official Mormon church sources claim that when they opened their temple in the Spring of 1893, "Some Latter-day Saints saw...past Presidents of the Church and other ceceased Church leaders." (Our Heritage: A Brief History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1996, p. 102)
You can find an electronic version here: Our Heritage
For related thread today, see: Journal of Discourses/Vol 2/Spiritual Communication [The OTHER World Series: Lds discourse w/dead]
From the article: Fourth Mormon Prophet Wilford Woodruff told followers in 1887, "The dead will be after you, they will seek after you as they have after us in St. George (Journal of Discourses 19:229).
This is a fitting thread for this day...
Mormonism the Halloween religion...
tricks in the temple and all...
or should I say
trick-or-treaters in the temple and all...
My mother in law said she saw her late husband all dressed up in a white suit. Her late husband was not a mormon so I don’t know what he was doing there. I maintain it was Colonel Sanders.
I studied this religion many years ago. What I discovered was a religion so sick and depraved, I couldn’t believe anybody would practice it. I only conclude they can do so because they are abysmally ignorant.
Robert A. Heinlein
I spoke with a Hindu years ago who considered considered the Catholic practice of transubstantiation to be the most bizarre and macabre thing he could think of.
He called it "eating God".
Joseph Smith:
"The spirits...are blessed in their departure to the world of spirits. Enveloped in flaming fire, they are not far from us, and know and understand our thoughts, feelings, and motions, and are often pained therewith." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 326)
* Lds “apostle” Parley Pratt said: "...we frequently hold communication with our departed father, mother, brother, sister, son or daughter; or with the former husband or wife of our bosom..."
* Lds “prophet” Joseph F. Smith, nephew of Joseph Smith…in a book published by the highest ranking Lds hierarchy, The First Presidency:
* “Sometimes the Lord expands our vision from this point of view and this side of the veil, that we feel and seem to realize that we can look beyond the thin veil which separates us from that other sphere…the spirit world, surely those who have passed beyond can see more clearly through the veil back here to us…I believe we move and have our being in the presence of heavenly…beings. We are not separated from them…” (Gospel Doctrine, 2:215, 1971)
* “I claim that we live in their presence; they see us; they are solicitous for our welfare…” (GD, 2:216, 1971) (Original source: CR, Apr. 1916, pp. 2-4)
* “In like manner our fathers and mothers, brothers, sisters, and friends who have passed away from this earth…may have a mission given them to visit their relatives and friends upon the earth again, bringing…warning or reproof and instruction to those whom they had learned to love in the flesh. And so it is with Sister [Elizabeth H.] Cannon. She can return and visit her friends…” (GD, 2:224, Original source: Discourse @ the funeral of Elizabeth H. Cannon, JD 22:351-352]
Since ghosts (obviously) aren’t in Heaven, they are either demons, or souls who... well... haven’t made it to Heaven. Since Mormons don’t believe in purgatory (which is not to say that Catholics believe ghosts are souls in purgatory*), that must mean that they are in Hell.
(*Some Catholic saints have recounted being visited by souls in dreadful suffering, which they supposed meant that they were in purgatory, but such visitations aren’t what most people mean by ghosts, and the Church certainly hasn’t found that such souls were in purgatory.)
So, it’s a funny admission by the Mormons that their prophets are in Hell (whether permanent Hell, or some sort of purging Hell.)
Mind you, there’s quite likely several popes in Hell, or a very severe purgatory. But pope’s don’t suppose they’re prophets. (The gift of infallibility is a “negative gift”: No pope can suppose his unsubstantiated suppositions are infallible. He must discern that his teaching is uncontradicted throughout the history of the Church, and has been a consistent teaching of the Church to the extent it has been enunciated. The gift of infallibility merely protects him from error in this discernment; one pope was even struck dead as he was about to make an errant proclamation.)
Which Pope was that, and what was the errant proclamation.
I am not Catholic, and am always curious.
Some, perhaps many, are in it because of ignorance, some because they were born into it and refuse to see the light despite all the evidence that their religion is satanic. Some have their lives and fortunes invested in the lie, I'm thinking Romney on that one.
Whether Romney is ignorant or gullible, either case makes him unfit to be president and I am not afraid to say that his satanic religion is the number one reason that I'll never vote for him for anything. I also have a ton of back up reasons.
I don’t subscribe to transubstantion either. Or Hinduism. The New Age Movement. Ad infinitum.
Truth is that I forgot. I remember reading it in “Pope Fiction,” by Patrick Madrid. Excellent book; brief little historical rebuttals to common myths about various pope.
He understands it better than most. There’s a reason that all but his closest followers deserted him when he declared, “Unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, you shall not have life within you.”
(*Some Catholic saints have recounted being visited by souls in dreadful suffering, which they supposed meant that they were in purgatory, but such visitations aren’t what most people mean by ghosts, and the Church certainly hasn’t found that such souls were in purgatory.)
So, it’s a funny admission by the Mormons that their prophets are in Hell (whether permanent Hell, or some sort of purging Hell.)
Mind you, there’s quite likely several popes in Hell, or a very severe purgatory. But pope’s don’t suppose they’re prophets. (The gift of infallibility is a “negative gift”: No pope can suppose his unsubstantiated suppositions are infallible. He must discern that his teaching is uncontradicted throughout the history of the Church, and has been a consistent teaching of the Church to the extent it has been enunciated. The gift of infallibility merely protects him from error in this discernment; one pope was even struck dead as he was about to make an errant proclamation.)
***
Sinse you are so sure dangus...
Why did those in Sodom want to know the two angel men?
Geneses 19
1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
4 ¶But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
**
Genesis 32 New International Version (NIV)
can you imagine that plurar marriage and Jacob seeing God face to face and lived!
Jacob Wrestles With God 22 That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak.
25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[f] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel,[g] saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”
31 The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel,[h] and he was limping because of his hip. 32 Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob’s hip was touched near the tendon.
***
Genesis 32:22-32 (New American Standard Bible)
***
Points of Interest from the Resurrection of Jesus Christ Story:
• There are at least 12 different appearances of Christ in the resurrection accounts, beginning with Mary and ending with Paul. They were physical, tangible experiences with Christ eating, speaking and allowing himself to be touched.
• Jesus' resurrected body was different from his physical body. It was no longer subject to the same laws of nature. He could transcend locked doors, and yet he could still be touched and he could eat.
• Before Jesus ascended into heaven he gave the Great Commission, telling his followers to go and make disciples of all nations.
• The stone was not rolled away from the tomb so Jesus could get out. He was able to walk through walls (John 20:19) in his resurrected body. The stone was rolled away so that everyone could see that he was risen.
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblestorysummaries/p/theresurrection.htm
***
6) Mark 16:5-7 - They found the stone rolled away, enter the tomb and see a man with a white robe (an angel) sitting in the tomb. He tells them that Jesus has ...
The only reason there are contradictions in the Bible it because designing men be they political etc.
For centuries many continue to embrace the Tradition of men or the Reader's Digest version and very few search the Bible.
John 5:39
39 ¶Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Acts 17:11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Jacob 7:23
23 And it came to pass that peace and the love of God was restored again among the people; and they searched the scriptures, and hearkened no more to the words of this wicked man.
The only reason there are contradictions in the Bible it because designing men be they political etc.
For centuries many continue to embrace the Tradition of men or the Reader's Digest version and very few search the Bible.
BTW Don't forget the Holy Ghost!
I think you misunderstand me, or I misunderstand what this author means by “hauntings.”
I absolutely believe in visitation after death... of those in Heaven. But there’s a huge difference between a messenger coming from God to deliver a message of God, and a haunting!
I’d also entertain the notion that on rare occasion, God might even permit a soul in purgatory to be made visible on Earth... but again, with a purpose that is God’s.
LouAvul - “I only conclude they can do so because they are abysmally ignorant.”
Do you believe that of all religious people or do you single out Mormons as being the only ones who are “abysmally ignorant”? Since all religions contain some element of mystery I wonder how you categorize all believers. In other words, if they don’t believe exactly as you believe, are we all “abysmally ignorant”?
Catholics believe in some different kind of stuff - like praying to Saints and Mary, etc. Are they all “abysmally ignorant” too according to you?
Good think you are not my judge. That job belongs to Jesus Christ.
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