Mormon scholar under fire

Since it seems that some LDS/Mormons think Mormon Scholars need their discussions protected under a LDS Caucus rules, , I thought I'd give the scholars a chance for dome complete FR scrutiny. I mean really makes you wonder what kind of things a scholar qould want want to protect from open discussion?

This article sheds some more light on the "Mormon Scholar" thing.

It really does seem that scholars who start out Mormons have a difficult time staying Mormon.

Do you still want to go back to being a catholic?

I wonder if he average Mormon follows these controversies.

Do you still want to go back to being a catholic?

Roman Catholic you mean? Are you a Roman Catholic? If you want to discuss this with me FReep mail would be appreciated.

I wonder if he average Mormon follows these controversies.

Regardless of the "average" ones, the FR RINOs for Romney and the FR Mormon apologists do?

Archaeology does not offer support for the Mormon theories either.
I've always found that....interesting.

No they don’t follow stories like these. They are discouraged from reading anything that doesn’t support their teachings.

Yep, Mormon scholars have a very difficult time staying true to the faith.

Go here and see the mighty and how they have fallen - http://mormonscholarstestify.org/

BTW, I have seen and know a few true Christian scholars who were critical of some of the accepted beliefs of mainstream Christianity who were blasted and ostracized by their own. So, to follow your train of thought delacoert, it really does seem that scholars who start out mainstream Christians have a difficult time staying mainstream Christian.

What ???

No Court of Love ???

I wish that lds would read these articles but I am pretty sure they are discouraged from reading anything that is controversial about lds.

Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their forner Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, then quote and straw man attack that. Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you, the seeker of truth out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

Ah huh. Go here and see how they actually have fallen - http://www.exmormonscholarstestify.org/

You forgot the "ex".....

http://exmormonscholarstestify.org/

Just want to help you out....

You might look at this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtq62XQ4jw&feature=related..some Scholars in that film too.

Did you ever wonder why...a group would be called http://exmormonsforjesus.org/....?

Good luck...

Mormons insist they are Christians but just not by our definition. They say they believe in Jesus because the name of their church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

However, if they believe in Jesus, they would certainly believe in what Jesus Christ taught.

Check and see whether Jesus taught any of the following Mormon beliefs in the Bible:

1. The plurality of Gods (Mormon Doctrine pp. 576, 577)

2. The baptism for the dead done in holy temples (Mormon Doctrine pp. 72,73)

3. Celestial marriage which no unworthy member or outsider can attend (Mormon Doctrine pp. 117, 118)

4. Polygamy needed to become a God (Journal of Discourse, Vol. II p. 269)

5. Blacks were cursed with a dark skin (Mormon Doctrine p. 109)

6. You can become a God if you are worthy; celestial marriage required (Mormon Doctrine p. 118)

7. We were all pre-existent spirits (Mormon Doctrine p. 589)

8. God has a body of flesh and bones (Mormon Doctrine p. 289)

9. We have a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father (Mormon Doctrine p. 516)

10. There are three levels of heaven. To go to the highest kingdom, you must be a Mormon. Honorable persons go to the Terrestrial kingdom. The dishonest, liars, sorcerers, adulterers and whoremongers go to the Telestial kingdom . (Mormon Doctrine pp. 420, 421)

11. God and his wife achieved a celestial marriage (Celestial Marriage Manual p. 1)

12. Heavenly Father died just like Jesus (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 346)

13. God was once just like us and progressed to godhood (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 345)

14. God has a father and His Father has a Father, etc. (Mormon Doctrine p. 322)

15. Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers (Mormon Doctrine p. 192)

16. Jesus and Lucifer each had a plan to people the earth. Jesus' plan was chosen and caused Lucifer to rebel and he and the angels that followed him were cast out of heaven. (Mormon Doctrine p. 193)

17. God lives near a star called Kolob (Mormon Doctrine p. 428)

18. Temple endowments are so sacred that you must be worthy to enter (Mormon Doctrine pp. 619, 620)

19. Jesus was not able to keep his church together (History of the Church Vol. 6 pp. 408, 409)

20. In the future, you will need Joseph Smith's consent in order to enter the celestial kingdom (Journal of Discourse Vol. 7 p.289)

21. Not everything you'll need to know concerning salvation will be recorded in the Bible but there will be additional scriptures (Mormon Doctrine p. 83)

It is not because Mormons don't agree with our definition of Christianity. It's because Mormonism teaches doctrines that are contrary to Biblical Christianity which disqualifies them from being called Christian.

http://mormonscholarstestify.org/

is indeed a nice site. Thanks for the reminder!

SEEKERS OF TRUTH

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s a mormon poster here that spends a great deal of his time posting . He posts regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

These multiple spam messages do not address the many examples of mormon doctrine that are posted directly from mormon scriptures and the statements of mormon leaders.

This must lead you to realize that there is NO legitimate method for FR mormons to address the words of their scriptures and leaders in an attempt to paint the mormon religion as Christian. In fact, statements from mormon doctrine and leaders can ONLY show that these doctrines and leaders were RABIDLY ANTI-CHRISTIAN, from the founder Joseph Smith down through more than 180 years.

Mormonism is attempting to co-opt the Christian message and twist it to include this anti-Christian doctrine so that the world will accept the demand of the mormon church that it be included in the Christian community.

Don't fall for the lies. Your eternal soul is at risk.

Are you willing to do for the truth what the cults do for a lie? If you REALLY want to know about mormonism..click here

Seekers of truth

Another testimony of a seeker of truth -

It Should Have Been A Devastating Year…
Testimony of Ben Davis:

A friend recently explained to someone that my conversion to Christ was similar to that of the Apostle Paul. The weight of a comparison to Paul is a little embarrassing but I feel as though I, too, had scales that fell from my eyes. While I am not new to the doctrines and philosophies related to Christianity, I have just recently surrendered to Christ and allowed Him to enter my life. This year has been described as the worst year for Americans, in the last 50 years, but it has been incredible for me. This year a miraculous change has occurred with my life, a change that has not only been revolutionary, but has resulted in what the Apostle Paul described in his second letter to the Corinthians as, “..a new creation” in and through Christ (2 Cor. 5:17). Just as Paul explained that the “old has gone, the new has come,” so has it in my life. With this transformation, I have committed to turn my life over to God.

As many of you know, I was raised Mormon. I was raised in a very devout home. My dad was an Elders Quorum President, Bishop, High Counselor, and a member of a Stake Presidency. We were raised with high expectations regarding our knowledge of the Book of Mormon, Mormon doctrines, and church history. I started having doubts about Mormonism in my junior and senior year of high school but it started to boil over while I was at Ricks College/BYU, in Rexburg. During that time I was able to speak with many professors and church leaders, but never got adequate answers to my questions regarding the faith.

I came home from BYU, and received my mission call, but I felt incredibly dishonest having anything to do with a mission while I was undecided about my own faith. My dad was adamant that I needed to ignore my doubts, go on a mission, and I would be fully converted to Mormonism. I decided not go on a mission. I moved out of my parents house the night I decided not to go. I took a step back from Mormonism for about 15 months, after this event, and attended Catholic and Christian services in an attempt to find truth elsewhere. These services were interesting and I learn a great deal, but they did not result in any religious and spiritual changes in my life.

My wife and I got engaged a few months after I moved out. Fourteen months later we were married. The next month she converted to Mormonism. I did not object as I clung to hope that with marriage and my own family I could come to some better agreement with Mormon doctrine and culture. We were active in the church for the better part of the next 4 years.

In 2003 we went to the temple, where we were “endowed” and “sealed.” In the months prior to attending the temple many members explained that it would be a powerful spiritual experience that would strengthen my testimony and answer many of my questions regarding doctrine, but it instead left me with more questions and a shattered testimony. As we drove home from the Oakland temple, I was not filled with reassurance or any confirmation of the Spirit that what I had just participated in was anything heavenly or God-like. Instead, I was left wondering how costumes, signs, and tokens were anything other than fraternity-like rituals. Something inside me bristled at the notion that any of these temple rituals were needed to come closer to either Jesus Christ or our salvation. Additionally, it was even more perplexing to learn that my wife needed me to attain her exaltation and glory. This limit being placed upon the Blood of Christ seemed repugnant even before I had gained a witness of the true Jesus Christ. I am not and cannot be anyone’s intercessory or savior.

In the aftermath of the temple experience I was largely ignored and was without anyone willing to provide any more concrete answers due to the “sacred” nature of these rituals. I was left in confusion and chaos about my faith and membership in the LDS Church. The only advice from my dad and my church leaders regarding the temple was to read my Book of Mormon and keep attending the temple; I was left without any other choice than to investigate these rituals, doctrine, and church history on my own. What I found was utterly shocking and undeniable. After a great deal of research I came to the conclusion that the LDS faith was nothing more than a distortion and a perversion of mainstream Christianity. It is false, the history they teach is wrong, and there was no salvation in it Once I left the church in 2005, I quickly realized that since I was born into it, I was left with little else to believe in. While I had knowledge of Christian and Protestant doctrine I was still challenged by topics of God’s nature, Christ’s divinity, and salvation. I became a self described “atheist” and “agnostic.” I avoided anything remotely religious during the two years after leaving Mormonism. I swore I would never step foot in a church. I describe this as my journey in a desolate wilderness. There was no joy or true happiness, only an attempt to fill the God shaped void in my heart and mind with worldly objects.

In late 2007, God had other plans, as my wife’s parents invited me to their First Presbyterian Church. I reluctantly agreed to attend. Their Pastor spoke of the historical accuracy and truthfulness of Jesus Christ, His sacrifice, and His resurrection. It was like being hit with a spiritual 2×4. I suddenly could not deny the existence of Jesus Christ nor could I deny that he was the Son of God. Despite this witness, in a moment of weakness, I decided to ignore this life changing information.

Over the next two years, as I look back, God was definitely knocking and pleading with me to turn my life over to Him. I guess he became impatient and decided to give me a louder wake up call. I lost my job in May, and when it happened I thought it was devastating. Ironically, looking back over the last 8 months, it has been the greatest thing that has ever happened in my life. In late July, I began talking with 2 Christian friends from high school and a cousin. After talking with these people, I finally realized that I needed to give God an opportunity to flourish in my life, I was tired of running from Him.

My wife and I attended Bayside Church, in Granite Bay, within 15 minutes of taking our seats the Spirit grabbed a hold of me. I can distinctly remember sitting there singing the chorus of Amazing Grace, and in my spiritual exhaustion I offered my life and myself to Him. I was finished running away from God, and surrendered to the call to come to Him; I was finished trying to mask my need for God with worldly objects. In that moment with tears streaming down my face, I knew with all of my soul and mind, through the Holy Spirit, that Christ is Lord! In a split second I clearly knew, and now know, of the One and Everlasting, all-powerful, all-knowing God as explained to us in Isaiah 45, 1 John 3, and Revelations 1. I gained a witness of the Lord Jesus Christ who is God come in flesh (John 1:14) to dwell with us; that it is only through Him that we come to the Father (John 14:6). I gained a witness that through Jesus Christ’s death on the cross we have been given the ability to receive reconciliation. This ability to seek reconciliation is a free gift that must be embraced. That morning I chose to embrace the gift! I suddenly realized that there is nothing I could do to earn the favor of God, rather I put my trust in what Jesus did for us on the cross.

With this transformation has come the call to become a Pastor. In His infinite wisdom, The Lord has seen fit to bestow upon me certain gifts and talents; I would be remiss if I did not dedicate those to both building the Kingdom of God, and protecting the “Body of Christ” from those that detract from the good news , which we know to be the birth, life, ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 15:1-8). It has been incredible what the Holy Spirit has done in my life and in my knowledge of the “Good News!” I am in awe of the information and wisdom that has been imparted to me, after the “scales” have fallen from my eyes!

I am determined to live my life in the service of the One who called us, our Lord Jesus Christ. I am rejoicing in the opportunities and callings to serve the Kingdom and God’s people.

Unlike some folks in Salt Lake City, the Catholic Church is not afraid of DNA evidence.

But we’re just “the great and abominable church”, as described in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine & Covenants.

Dominus vobiscum and Merry Smithmas, y’all!

;^)

Archaeology does not offer support for the Mormon theories either.
I’ve always found that....interesting.
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Same here, very intresting! I think that’s why they have to pray about the BOM to see if it’s true.

Are you saying that all Mormon scholars have troubled faith or that some of them have troubled faith?

Can the same be said of Christian scholars? Are there scholars who were Christians and because of their studies have fallen from the ranks of the faithful?