The LDS headquarters; in the heart of Salt Lake City, visited by THOUSANDS daily, has this placed in prominent view:
...which reiterates the charge that
"they are all wrong; they teach for doctrines the commandments of men"
Posted on 01/07/2010 9:39:02 AM PST by Colofornian
Truman Madsen was amazed at the outburst.
Madsen was at a Harvard seminar on the great Catholic thinker, Saint Augustine. As the graduate students were discussing the Creation, Madsen presented the Mormon idea that "man's intelligence was unoriginated and indestructible."
"The entire class was violent in its outbursts," Madsen later wrote. "For some minutes the professor's anxiety to keep the peace was futile."
Madsen, who died last year, wrote about this encounter in his 1966 book "Eternal Man."
But the idea that caused the academic explosion wasn't Madsen's. "Regarding the ultimate identity of man, the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that man as a primal intelligence is eternal," Madsen wrote. "Likewise the spirit-elements that compose his divinely sired spirit and the matter-elements that compose his physically-sired body are eternal."
Joseph Smith's revolutionary teachings had four characteristics, according to Madsen:
1. Individuality
Humans had a beginningless beginning. As Joseph said, "Intelligence is eternal and exists on a self-existent principle."
2. Autonomy
The self is free and can, as Joseph said, "act for itself" where God placed it.
3. Consciousness
There is no unconscious mind...
4. Capacity for development
"All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement," Joseph said.
But these four ideas are radical. They challenge both religious dogma and secular viewpoints.
"It uproots in one fell swoop presuppositions that are lodged in billions of minds and millions of books," Madsen wrote.
SNIP
Orthodox Christianity sees humans as beings created by God out of nothing -- ex nihilo.
"If God is directly responsible for all that man is, he is indirectly responsible for all that man does," Madsen wrote about the implications of that doctrine...
(Excerpt) Read more at mormontimes.com ...
If the answer is - YES - then what?
See!
You CAN have your cake and eat it too!
See!
You CAN have your cake and eat it too!
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
Yup:
Exposing the Heresy of MORMONism
is what they are ALL about!
No, you got an informative answer. I gave you an extremely recent example to what you inquired about. Did you address that information in this post? (No)
Did you take back your accusation that I don't say anything uplifting about Mormons? (No) Therefore, your comment that ...am I a human being and child of God with flaws? rings hollows because Mormons say repentance is so important...and I see none in your accusation.
No, I did not realize it was widely accepted internet forum protocol to copy the person referenced in a board on the recipient list of said post. I am somewhat new here on Free Republic. I don't post very often.
Well, nevermind the specific forum we're talking (you're beginning to sound like some teens I've talked to who didn't know the specific groundrules of where they were...but certainly had common sense not to do what they did). So, morally speaking, yes or no, do you think it's "OK" to make a putdown comment about someone to the whole world and make the comment on the sly? (not tell them you've mentioned them by name -- or the commnet)
Would anyone else like to chime in on my flaws? Please, dont stop. This is very entertaining.
BTW, in addition to talking about posters behind their back, do you always engage in this -- where you put words in their mouth as well? (I guess posters don't even need to engage in a conversation with you, eh? You can post about them -- and then when they don't know to respond -- you'll just insert your quotations of whatever you want them to say...motivation & all!)
Since you presumed to place what my internal motivations were -- as if you were some sort of heart judge (something 1 Samuel 16:7 advises against for mere humans) -- I'll tell you what my motivation was for pinging the others: If you're talking about me minus a ping on Lds caucuses, then perhaps they need to check your posts as well to see if a broader pattern is afoot re: other posters.
There is no broader pattern, and you as well as everyone else on this board is free to investigate and analyze every single post of mine. In fact, they will even see that you and I have had a couple constructive (except this one) discussions regarding religion in the past.
I do not wish to promote contention amongst those who I consider fellow conservatives (like yourself), especially in the state our country is in at the moment. The last thing we need is infighting. It was an honest mistake. Re-read 1 Samuel 16:7 and apply it to this situation right here. In fact, add Matthew 7:1-5.
I will not be responding to this thread any longer for this reason.
What would you consider "uplifting"...THIS?
Thomas Monson on Being an Example
With all this "uplifting" stuff available, why would anyone waste their time on an OPEN discussion forum like FR where one might find posts they might find NOT uplifting about mormonism?
One's bishop should be informed at the next temple recommend interview if one were to be associating with the wrong kind of folks who and reading the wrong kind of information!
I won't pick on you; but I will be posting stuff the LDS, Inc. has published over the years.
Listen, Derek, I'm sure you are sincere in this desire. But have you ever thought through the consistency issue here?
There's many nice Lds FReepers, people like Reno232, who has stated the same kind of "wish" goals.
So, yes, we all realize there's some big sources of cultural, political and world religion comin' right at us. And to some degree, we need to coalesce on those things.
The "consistency" issue I'm talkin' about is that every time one of those 60,000 Lds missionaries makes mentions of the "universal apostasy" -- accusing us Christians of "apostasy" -- that is promoting what you call "contention."
(I mean how is that any different than Muslims accusing Christians of mass infidelity? ["infidels"])
As for "infighting" -- it likewise hasn't helped matters that for about 180 years, Mormons have called Christian "professors" as "corrupt"; their creeds as 100% abominable; and that are churches aren't worth joining...and to have a Mormon generation enshrine these "first vision" thoughts as Mormon "scripture" to be imposed upon & adhered to by every True Believing Mormon isn't going to yield peace, harmony, reconciliation, and Kum Ba Yah feelings. (Can't you at least comprehend that?)
Reference above: See Joseph Smith History vv. 18-20 in the Pearl of Great Price.
Anyway, that's what the "consistency" issue boils down to. We Christians find it frankly very contentious for Mormons to accuse us Christians in over 100 languages in their "scriptures," curricula, articles, etc. of being apostates, corrupt, lacking power, lacking authority, and lacking even a single creed that's honorable to the Lord. And until you address these things with your own Lds HQ & with your own Lds missionaries, we find Mormon appeals to hug&kisses "can't we all get along" as one-sided, lopsided, and fails to address the foundation from which you speak.
If you don't care to respond any further on this thread; can always FReepmail me.
AMEN!
If not, why did you engage in that on FR Tuesday? [See
Here [LDS Caucus] ] ... and on an LDS caucus thread to boot where you knew non-Mormons aren’t likely to be hanging out?
- - - - -
Were those by any chance the posts #4 & #6 that were removed by the moderator?
I do not wish to promote contention amongst those who I consider fellow conservatives (like yourself), especially in the state our country is in at the moment.
- - - - - - -
And we have hit DEFLECTION.
Well said.
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