Posted on 10/18/2009 10:13:02 PM PDT by bogusname
The Rabbi talks about who Adam was and just what sort of creature he was purposed to be. He also talks about how the angels reacted to the creation of Adam. (From IsraelNationalNews.com)
(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...
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Just got through listening to it myself. Good stuff. Here we go with a New Year and New Torah cycle!
Where are these “angels” in the early stages of Bereshis? Torah makes no mention of them but in the sense of the imperial “we” which could be anything.
It seems to undermine monotheism right from the start by having a bunch of lesser, or demi-gods about.
And how do we know that the serpent in Eden was “Satan” - of whom there is no evidence for prior to human abstraction - but God Himself?
Well Doug it sounds like you need to take a good look at the book of Job. Over the past few years I’ve written so many answers to people’s questions that i’m getting a bit worn out. So I’m not going to do all of your homework for you as I’ve come to understand that the most common reason people don’t have the answers to their questions is due to their chosen agendas. It is an absolute fact that the scriptures have answers to every question that needs to be answered. The scriptures do not have the answers to every question they want answered.
As the book of Job shows the angels report to God on a regular basis. It can be determined by what’s going on with Job in between these reports that the angels report their activities fairly often. From the time that Job’s children were struck and all of his possessions taken to the time the angels next reported could not have been very long. We know this because after the second time that the angels reported and Job was struck with boils, Jobs friends showed up to comfort him. In that day with transportation being by foot or animal and the fact that “friends” couldn’t be too far off the time period between reports must have no more than a couple of weeks and probably much shorter. Now this shows that God is continually working with the angels to answer your question. It also indicates by way of the great destruction brought upon Job by satan that they have a god like status in our eyes. The story also shows that satan’s main goal is to get man to sin against God.
Now that as far as I’m going to go in giving you answers because in the book of Luke we are told that if somebody won’t believe the scriptures then nothing will convince them to believe God. Read the story of the rich man who went to hell and see it for yourself.
Do your own homework Doug.
bogusname
It’s generally conceded by rabbinical sources that Job is a work of fiction. With this in mind, it makes its points through metaphor and simile, which is fine. It’s a beautiful story that sees Job through to the love of God regardless of the heiniousness of his circumstances.
Once again, while I believe there is abundant evidence for God in creation, there seems no evidence whatsoever to suggest a “Satan”, or angels prior to the time when humans were capable of abstracting information from their environment, and “invented” especially Satan to expiate their sins onto “something’ other than their own minds.
Thank you for having taken your valuable time to attempt to elucidate your perceived ignorance of my thought.
Well then I suppose Christ wasn’t tempted by satan either in your world. When Christ said, “get thee behind me satan” He was talking about an invention of man.
I told you from the start that you can’t be convinced if you don’t believe the scriptures. Your ignorance is real but that’s not your main problem. You have some agenda that requires that there be no such thing as satan. Wanting something doesn’t make it reality Doug.
bogusname
For your assumption I’m Noachide and a deep believer in Torah.
I believe Jesus was a fine rabbi, but no more divine than you or I.
Baruch Hashem....
Thank you for exposing your error. That was very brave of you. I trust someday you can fix that problem.
bogusname
I believe Jesus was a fine rabbi, but no more divine than you or I.
Baruch Hashem....
I'm sorry to get into this, but onedoug, please label yourself correctly. You may be a Noachide in the sense that all non-Jews are Noachides, but you are not an "orthodox," practicing Noachide, nor are you a "deep believer in Torah," else you would accept that it was written by G-d and would accept all of the Written and all of the Oral Torah as well and would not be subjecting them to the claims of science or "reason."
And if "true Monotheism" is undermined by the existence of angels, then it is undermined by the existence of human beings as well. Maybe we don't exist either?
My goodness, a person with wisdom showed up. Shalom and GBY.
I’m trying to send you a private reply but for some reason it isn’t working.
The Mods are working on it.
No it’s not working for some reason. I keep trying to open it but it won’t let me. I don’t know what the problem is.
Thanks for setting me free, zc.
As Israel means to struggle with God, I so struggle and will take my beliefs before Him when He cashes me in.
To that extent am I extant.
As Israel means to struggle with God, I so struggle and will take my beliefs before Him when He cashes me in.
To that extent am I extant.
Onedoug . . . if only you would be that honest and stop telling people you are a Noachide (of course you are one technically, but so is every other non-Jew in existence) and that you "love Torah."
And please forgive me for saying this, but that "wrestling with G-d" line is getting a little old. That isn't the only passage in the Torah, you know.
Well, tell Him on me then.
LOL! I don't like fighting with you, onedoug, especially in public, but so long as you continue to misrepresent your views as standard Noachide/Torah beliefs I will have to call you on it. The moment you stop doing so, I'll be able to take a rest from correcting the impressions you're creating.
I won’t do it anymore, zc. You’ve inspired me to Dougism, where I can finally be a cleric.
Best....
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