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To: BertWheeler

I like Mary. I’m in awe of Mary. She gets a pink candle for Advent. She was a Godly woman, who accepted a calling and a blessing. But just as the wise men worshiped and gave presents to Jesus, I do not give prayer, praise, or worship to Mary that is due to her son.

This article correctly implies that Marian Worship will never be accepted by Protestants until tradition is accepted. I do not believe tradition will be accepted by Protestants, so Marian Worship faces a big hurdle.

Appreciation of Mary is another thing all together. Every Christmas season we are reminded of Mary’s acceptance of and submission to God’s will.

The revulsion of Marian Worship is sometimes miss directed at Mary, the mother of Jesus, when it should be directed at the idea of Mary, the Queen of Heaven.

During my Grandmother’s funeral, I was looking around at the mosaics in the Catholic Church. I was disturbed by the image of Jesus bowing to Mary, offering her a crown while on His knees. I don’t see anyway to support this image based on scripture or the creeds.


17 posted on 10/16/2009 9:39:05 AM PDT by Tao Yin (sorry, couldn't resist.)
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To: Tao Yin
Catholics do NOT worship Mary! (I don't know who started that ugly rumor!)

Remember that when Christ was made man, he made himself subject to Mary and to Joseph. Luke 2:51. He knelt at their feet, obeyed them in all things, and served as a child serves.


J.R. Herbert, "Christ Subject to His Parents at Nazareth"

Because he humbled himself in all things, even unto death on a cross. Philipians 2:8.

18 posted on 10/16/2009 9:50:26 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Tao Yin
That's not a typical iconography of the Coronation of the Virgin, by the way. Don't think I've ever seen one. These are more typical:


20 posted on 10/16/2009 9:53:00 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Tao Yin
I like Mary. I’m in awe of Mary. She gets a pink candle for Advent.

The reason there's a pink candle is liturgical. In the Roman Rite the penitential season of Advent has four Sundays, three of which (1, 2, 4) take violet vestments (hence the 3 purple candles). The third Sunday is called "Laetare Sunday" with rose (not really pink) vestments--it is a slight break in the penitential mood with some anticipated joy for the Savior's imminent arrival.

I've never heard about this idea that the pink was for Mary, although I can see why it came about. It's not a bad symbolism actually.

22 posted on 10/16/2009 10:57:30 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Tao Yin
The revulsion of Marian Worship is sometimes miss directed at Mary, the mother of Jesus, when it should be directed at the idea of Mary, the Queen of Heaven.

Couple of things on that. First, we've sorta lost the historical notion of monarchy in this country for obvious reasons, but typically the mother of the king had the distinct title of "Queen Mother." If Christ is the King, then she kinda has to be the Queen Mother automatically.

Second of all, the idea of Queen of Heaven is embedded in the imagery of Revelations 12: a woman with the moon under her feet and a crown of 12 stars. On one level, that's symbolic of the new Israel/Church of course. Yet it's hard not to draw some kind of analogy with Mary because she is the actual person who gave birth to the male child. We have a nice literary metonymy here: the individual representing the corporate.

For both reasons, I think that the Queen of Heaven idea is quite fitting for Our Lady.

23 posted on 10/16/2009 11:10:33 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Tao Yin
I have never seen a picture of Jesus kneeling in front of Mary.

You mentioned that the Magi gave the presents of gold, frankinsence and myhrr to Jesus.......but he was a BABY, so Mary and Joseph had to ACCEPT FOR HIM.

Don't you ever ask a friend or relative to say a prayer for you to Jesus for something????? That's what we do with Mary.....I can't say this enough, and I don't have any idea of why people insist,stubborn hearts maybe, but WE DON'T WORSHIP MARY!!!!!

30 posted on 10/16/2009 1:09:22 PM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: Tao Yin

*** I was disturbed by the image of Jesus bowing to Mary, offering her a crown while on His knees. I don’t see anyway to support this image based on scripture or the creeds.***

“Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.” Exodus 20:12

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” Matthew 5:16-18

“Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.” Proverbs 31:30

Jesus is the King; therefore, Mary is the Queen Mother. Reference Solomon and his mother Bathsheba: “Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right hand.” I Kings 2:19


31 posted on 10/16/2009 1:26:07 PM PDT by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed Catholic Texan)
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To: Tao Yin

Perhaps the mosaic showed that because it was teaching the idea that we must honor our father and our mother. Christ subjected Himself to the authority and parenting of Mary and Joseph.

I believe Christ came and lived in the womb; was born and lived as an infant, an obedient child, a young man; worked and begged; became a teacher; lived through pain, loneliness and injury, and endured death in order to sanctify and validate every aspect of our human existence and experience.

The mosaic may have been showing Him giving honor to His parent, as well as establishing her role in Heaven.


37 posted on 10/16/2009 6:27:32 PM PDT by Melian ("frequently in error, rarely in doubt")
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