So what’s your experience with the Three Nephites? [LDS OPEN]

Standard-Examiner Blogs ^ | Sep 18th, 2009 | Doug Gibson

[Alex Murphy]

We Mormons have our own personal religious lore; one that tops the list is the Three Nephites. A healthy percentage of members who make it to church more often than not either have their own personal Three Nephites tale or can relate at least one that has been passed onto them.

The Three Nephites are mentioned in The Book of Mormon as disciples of Jesus Christ who ask to remain on earth until Jesus Christ returns and convert souls for him. Christ says yes, which is the same answer he gives to John the Beloved in the New Testament. (I digress here to wonder how often the Three Nephites and John the Beloved have met the past 1,977 years or so. Do they ever get tired of each other? Do they ever squabble? I couldn’t imagine being on my best behavior waiting for a guest who won’t tell us when he’ll ever return.)

Despite my occasional skepticism, I’m one of those who can boast of his own “Three Nephites experience.” But first, some more about the LDS folklore of the Three Nephites. Besides John the Beloved, the Three Nephites have parallels to The Wandering Jew, Catholic saints and even the Prophet Elijah. Although reports of Three Nephites activity are not — for good reason — official Mormon doctrine, their calling is mentioned in Mormonism’s most unique scripture. One who claims a literal belief in the Book of Mormon must agree that the three are still hanging around somewhere. The same goes for the Bible and John the Beloved.

The first Three Nephites tale I recall hearing is about an army officer on the front in World War II who gives a lift in his jeep to three wandering civilians. When he drops them off, one of the men asks what he can do to repay the officer. The officer flippantly replies, “Tell me when this war will end?” The man gives him a date. The officer thinks nothing of the answer until the war ends, and you guessed it, on the exact date the man told him!

There’s a million of these tales. In 1949, author Hector Lee published “The Three Nephites: The Substance and Significance of the Legend in Folklore,” Albuquerque, The University of New Mexico Press. Here are a couple of accounts that Lee collected:

• The Hitchhiking “ghost” Nephite, where an old hitchhiker was picked up by couple traveling to Grand Junction, Colo. It was 1944. The old hitchhiker was a whiz on current events. At the most desolate part of their journey, the hitchhiker insisted on being let out. Naturally the couple protested. The hitchhiker told them they would soon be hauling a dead body to Grand Junction. He then told them the exact date that World War II would end. Sure enough, the couple came upon a car wreck with a fatality and hauled the dead driver to Grand Junction. The war ended on the same date as well.

I mention this tale because it’s similar to the one I heard as a child. The setting had changed and there was no dead body and there were three hitchhikers instead of one. I imagine that as “Three Nephites sightings” are passed along over and over, the tale can change significantly.

• Here’s another Three Nephites tale Lee compiled with a lot of the supernatural included. Mrs. Aylda Abbott Squires of Wa Wa Springs, in Utah, recounts an 1874 experience when she was all alone on the homestead and a lone man came by and asked for food. Mrs. Squires was frightened but provided him a meal. The man blessed her and promised her that a pain she was feeling in her liver would go away and that she would never want for basic necessities. As he turned a corner leaving she followed to see where he had gone but the man had disappeared. She returned to her table and discovered the lunch she had seen him eat and drink was untouched. Later, her mother reminded her that her Patriarchal blessing had mentioned she would see one of the Three Nephites.

I just love these tales. They’re part of what makes Mormonism so interesting and unique.

So here’s my “Three Nephites” tale. It’s got more holes in it than that once-sacred garment with the tokens cut off that grandma uses for cleaning, but here it is:

• It was 1983, in Chiclayo, Peru. My senior companion and I were in a massive slum, thousands of people living in homes without electricity or water. We were searching for the home of a referral. The potential investigator’s name was Marcos. After traipsing through the dusty dirt streets for the better part of a day, we stopped to stare at a very peculiar sight. A pig was hog-tied, presumably moments away from the slaughter. You’ve never heard screaming until you’ve heard a hog-tied pig scream. A crowd had gathered to stare at the pig. For some reason a man standing a few feet away caught our attention. One of us, I can’t recall which, asked — for the 100th time — “Do you know where Marcos lives?”

The man casually made a fist, thumb out, and glanced and pointed over his back toward an alley with a few house inward. “He lives back there,” he said.

To sum up a long story, we met Marcos, baptized him and later were baptized about 10 or 11 of his family members. Soon after we left Peru, Marcos went on his own mission. I’m glad Marcos and his family helped me to meet one of the Three Nephites.

A footnote: That same day, during our first visit with Marcos, the pig stopped screaming. When we returned to the site, there was only a dark, dank-smelling wet stain where the pig once screamed.

It took me about 10 years to realize that it would have been an impressive encore if the wandering Nephite had taken a moment to save the pig.

[Alex Murphy]

The Three Nephites are mentioned in The Book of Mormon as disciples of Jesus Christ who ask to remain on earth until Jesus Christ returns and convert souls for him. Christ says yes, which is the same answer he gives to John the Beloved in the New Testament. (I digress here to wonder how often the Three Nephites and John the Beloved have met the past 1,977 years or so. Do they ever get tired of each other? Do they ever squabble? I couldn’t imagine being on my best behavior waiting for a guest who won’t tell us when he’ll ever return)....Besides John the Beloved, the Three Nephites have parallels to The Wandering Jew, Catholic saints and even the Prophet Elijah. Although reports of Three Nephites activity are not — for good reason — official Mormon doctrine, their calling is mentioned in Mormonism’s most unique scripture. One who claims a literal belief in the Book of Mormon must agree that the three are still hanging around somewhere. The same goes for the Bible and John the Beloved.

"The original legend concerns a Jew who taunted Jesus on the way to the Crucifixion and was then cursed to walk the earth until the Second Coming. The exact nature of the wanderer's indiscretion varies in different versions of the tale, as do aspects of his character..."
-- from the Wikipedia article on "The Wandering Jew"

FWIW, the 1981 Kit Reed book Other Stories and the Attack of the Giant Baby features a short story titled "The Wandering Gentile", about this guy who was standing next to the Wandering Jew, in the crowd along the Via Dolorosa...

[Tennessee Nana]

The Three Nephites...

The Three Amigos ???

[Revelation 911]

yeah ive heard variants of this - didnt some David Allen Coe sing about Hank Williams Sr doing the same?

[devane617]

ping so I can read the replies...

[TexGuy]

The Three Amigos ???

They cannot stop El Guapo! I have plethora of weapons at my disposal.

[svcw]

Sorta reminds me of the “2000 year old man” comedy routine. Can't remember if it was Allen King or Mel Brooks or ? but it was funny.

[ConservativeMind]

Well, Catholics have their own ongoing “Mary sightings” and such. Heck, there are Catholics who somehow think a wax mask on a lady a Lourdes proves she is ageless and therefore “holy.”

[lurk]

Jesus never said John would stick around. Peter pointed at John and asked the resurrected Jesus “What about him?”

Jesus answered “What about him? What if he lives forever? Mind your own business.”

John died an old man, the only one of the apostles to die of natural causes.

The three Nephite story assumes that the Book of Mormon is true. Good luck proving that.

[Alex Murphy]

Sorta reminds me of the “2000 year old man” comedy routine. Can't remember if it was Allen King or Mel Brooks or ? but it was funny.

Mel Brooks!

[Godzilla]

Two nephites walk into a bar, the third ducks.

[greyfoxx39]

Ping

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***1874 experience when she was all alone on the homestead and a lone man came by and asked for food.***

The Adventists have similar tales.

There was a widow woman trapped in her home by a snow storm. She was without food when she heard a knock at the door. There stood a man with a bag of groceries for her.

She takes them and puts them on the table, then goes back to the door to thank the man. He is gone and there are no tracks leading to or away from her door.

[Tennessee Nana]

We were searching for the home of a referral. The potential investigator’s name was Marcos
______________________________________________

LOL

It was a “cold call”...

But the poor guy being harrassed was the “investigator”

:)

[aMorePerfectUnion]

The Three Nephities???

Ya just gotta believe! Two out of three isn't bad.

[Colofornian]

Jesus never said John would stick around. Peter pointed at John and asked the resurrected Jesus “What about him?” Jesus answered “What about him? What if he lives forever? Mind your own business.”John died an old man, the only one of the apostles to die of natural causes. [Lurk]

Exactly. This writer is a traditional Mormon (one who misquotes his "scriptures"): From the article: One who claims a literal belief in the Book of Mormon must agree that the three are still hanging around somewhere. The same goes for the Bible and John the Beloved.

From the article: We Mormons have our own personal religious lore...

(Yeah, we know: The whole Doctrine & Covenants falls into that category!)

Doesn't this Mormon know that Mormons get their real basis of John the apostle still wandering the earth direct from Joseph Smith (not the Bible) in Doctrine & Covenants 7:1-3?

"And the Lord said unto me: John, my beloved, what desirest thou? For if you shall ask what you will, it shall be granted unto you. And I said unto him: Lord, give unto me power over death, that I may live and bring souls unto thee. And the Lord sait unto me: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, because thou desirest this thou shalt tarry until I come in my glory and shall prophesy before nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

So, Smith thought John was still trepsing around Planet Earth.

Seems to me some Q are in order:
How many Mormons in how many countries have been converted by the apostle John?
Why haven't we seen articles about these conversions in Ensign magazine? In the Mormon Times? In church curricula?
Why doesn't the Lds church use the apostle John as an Lds missionary trainer? How many Lds missionaries have been trained by the apostle John?

Perhaps some of you can add to these questions to ask your Mormon neighbors: _________________________ (fill in the blank)

[Colofornian]

As I said the Mormon “tale” about the apostle John staying alive forever comes from Smith’s “editings” in Doctrine & Covenants 7. Joseph Smith expanded D&C 7 talking about John as a 24 yo AFTER he had already written a “revelation” in the Book of Commandments, the forerunner to the D&C.

You have to understand the picture here:
#1 Joe's pet rock gets active: Joseph gets a "translation" of a "revelation" through the urim and thummim" (Joseph’s pet rock).
#2 So he writes it down. Less than 150 words (what is now parts of D&C 7:1, 2, 3, all of 4, most of v. 5, all of v. 8).
#3 It’s printed in the Mormon “Book of Commandments.”
#4 (You’d think that I’d be done telling this story & that Joseph “the seer” just went on to “seeing” other things to “see.” Nope)
#5 Joseph gets this idea, ya see. He wants to start another book. (What became Doctrine & Covenants).
#6 So Joe the editor gets busy. He takes out “Lectures of Faith” from the “Book of Commandments.” But he keeps those early “revelations” as the jumpstart for the Doctrine & Covenants – and D&C 7 is one of these.
#7 'Silly putty Joe: Well, AFTER the Lord already gave him this 140-something word “revelation” AND he publishes it, he decides to play with it, like it’s silly putty. By the time he’s done with it, it’s suddenly expanded to 252 words!
#8 Joe decides to edit the Mormon god's revelation: And it’s not just he added another 100+ words to the end. Because D&C 7:8 (the last verse of D&C 7) stayed exactly the same – and nothing followed it. If you look at D&C 7:6-7, they weren’t in the original revelation! He changes words – like in v. 5 “desired” becomes ”undertaken”.
#9 Note this “most convenient” "keys" of authority handed over to Joe in a verse he tacked on in the D&C version of this revelation– v. 6: “And I will make thee to minister for him and for thy brother James; and unto you three I will give this power and the keys of this ministry until I come.” (the three included Smith & Oliver Cowdery)

#10 Since this thread is about “religious lore” about John as recorded by Smith, here’s what he changed/added AFTER this so-called “revelation” had already been published: Part of v. 1 (Not in original “revelation”): “For if you shall ask what you will, it shall be granted unto you.”
Part of v. 2: added words include “unto him…over death…live and”
Part of v. 3: (Not in original “revelation”): “…and shall prophesy before nations, kinds, tongues and people”)

Questions for your Mormon neighbor:
Who “screwed up” in translating D&C 7 as a Book of Commandments “revelation” the first time?
Did the urim & thummim have a “tech” issue?
Were the tech people in India hard for Joseph to understand? By wire?
Did Joe just screw it up?
Did Joe just decide he was going to suppress part of the revelation when it was first published? Why the editing of specific words – especially in vv. 2, 5? – Much as a writer would do a re-write? Does the Mormon god need rewrites hear on Planet Earth as he gives “revelations?”
And if these three verses as recorded in the Book of Commandments couldn’t stand on their own – if Joe had to re-do them, add to them in between verses, etc. – then what does that say about the trustworthiness of Smith as a “translator” of revelations? If he couldn’t get just three Book of Commandment verses right, then can Mormons really trust 600 pages in the Book of Mormon???

[Godzilla]

Serious questions that must be answered by mormons honestly.

[Colofornian]

From the article: Besides John the Beloved, the Three Nephites have parallels to The Wandering Jew, Catholic saints and even the Prophet Elijah...The same goes for the Bible and John the Beloved.

Let's see now...when Elijah & Moses appear to Jesus, that gets recorded in the Bible.

But when Smith claims that Jesus & the Father appear to him, he doesn't mention it in Doctrine & Covenants -- the Lds "scripture."

Furthermore, when he claims angels appear to him...he doesn't mention that in D&C, either.

Furthermore, when he claims the apostle Peter, John the Baptist, John the Beloved, and Jesus' brother James appears to him, does he mention that in the D&C? (No!) [This later gets stuck into into Joseph Smith-History v. 72].

Then others claimed that Peter visited Joseph. But they describe Peter as an angel. (And yet Smith said in D&C 132 that angels don't marry -- and we know Peter was married)

Yet, he then claims Jehovah, Moses, Elias, and Elijah appear to Him. This time, he mentions it in the D&C (110).

Well, how do we know the only "appearance" account that Joseph himself stuck in the Lds "scriptures" simply didn't happen? It's simple: In D&C 110:12-13, he says:

After this [after the lineup of those falling @ the feet of Smith, supposedly including Jehovah & Moses], Elias appeared...After this vision had closed, another great and glorioius vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet...stood before us..."

Now what's wrong with this picture? Well Elias is simply a Latin transliteration of the name Elijah. Elias IS Elijah. (He was just so ignorant he didn't know).

Tell us, Lds who is Elias????

[Elsie]

Serious questions that must be answered by mormons honestly.

No we don't; you foul ANTI!

We believe what our Leaders have told us, and, if we cannot UNDERSTAND it; we can ALWAYS turn to FAIRLDS for sufficient faith-strengthening answers!

--MormonDube(I believe it! - and we DON'T have to answer YOUR silly questions!!)

[greyfoxx39]

Serious questions that must be answered by mormons honestly.

WHAT? That's persecution! Don't you know that "When the leaders speak the thinking has been done!"