Review: How the Byzantines Saved Europe

acton.org ^ | AUGUST 17, 2009 | JOHN COURETAS

[muawiyah]

I believe “The Third Rome” would be more interested in Greece contributing to its historic churches in Moscow.

[SunkenCiv]

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[SunkenCiv]

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[SunkenCiv]

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Byzantium: The Surprising Life of a Medieval Empire by Judith Herrin Hardcover Hardcover Hardcover reviewed

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[Mmogamer]

The West did everythign it could to destroy the Byzantines. The fourth crusade is a prime example,,,they looted the city, the stuff they stole is still on display all over Europe even today.

[skepsel]

1700s, really? I’d like to know more about this. I thought the last (officially) pagans in Europe were Lithuanian, in the 14th or 15th century. Thanks.

[muawiyah]

Try - A History of the Vikings (Paperback) by Gwyn Jones

Note, not all the people of the Northern Polar regions were Christianized simultaneously with the Danes. The Orthodox were sending missionaries into the Sapmai to Christianize the Sa'ami well into modern times.

[muawiyah]

Luxembourg looted the city ~ not “The West”. Please avoid confounding the two.

[muawiyah]

BTW, just doing a quick lookup into the question it would appear you have to distinguish between "last pagan ruler" and "last pagans" ~ two different topics, and as I suspected the piece in Wiki does note the Sa'ami were still practicing "traditional religion" into the 18th century (1700s), and that's just in Europe. I'm sure many of the traditional practices (horns, drums, pointed hats, etc.) persisted into the 21st!.

They were hardly alone ~ plus, not all the Mongols went home (and many were Buddhist), and not all the Turkish POWs were repatriated (with good numbers of them being Orthodox and not Roman, and if not, then Moslem, and possibly even Shi'ite, not Sunni).

The various claims about uniformity of Christianization throughout Europe are just that ~ claims! Not everyone was on the same page at the same time, and knowing that the big blow up in the 15th and 16th centuries should have been expected.

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

Byz pingaroo!

[ZULU]

The dopey Brits made the same mistake in the Crimean War.

They should have been HELPING the Russians dismantle Turkey.

[ZULU]

Christians should take the same position with respect to Hagia Sophia as the Muslims take with respect to the “Al Aqsa Mosque - with FAR more justification.

[Nikas777]

Turks fear that giving it to the Greek Orthodox Church means they Greeks would lay claim to Constantinople - er - Istanbul.

Turks have a real fear that their country is set to be dismantled by the West as was attempted after WW1. That is why they view the Patriarchy with suspicion.

If the Turks moved on in their thinking they would realize that an active Hagia Sofia church would be a tourist bonanza.

[colorado tanker]

Thanks for the post. I've been fascinated with the Byzantine world for a long time. It's the classic lost world that at one time was so powerful and influential. I suspect that much of the learning moderns are so anxious to claim came from the Muslims actually came from the Byzantines.

I'm anxious to read this. Most of what I've read is a fairly dry political history of the major rulers. It sounds like the author brings that old world back to life and puts it in the context of its time.

[colorado tanker]

Northern and Western Europe was your basic old-timey Third World Hell Hole from about 535 AD to the end of the 100 Years War in the 1400s.

Give the Medieval world another chance. By the Renaissance of the Twelfth Century Europe had developed a lively and vibrant culture, as seen in the explosion of Gothic architecture, learning and the universities. It ended badly with much misfortune, but hey, that coincided with the onset of the Little Ice Age. Cold is not good for humanity.

[muawiyah]

The advances were a tip of an icicle, not an iceberg ~ it's not until the end of the Reconquista and the voyages of discovery throughout the world that European productivity increases and begins to approach that of ancient Rome.

Then all hell breaks loose as civilization is forced down around what had been a straightjacketed peasant based agrarian society. (Circa 1500s)

[colorado tanker]

We can agree on this, that the foundation for modern Western Civilization, which became the world's civilization, was laid in the 1500’s. Although it seems to be in a state of decay today.

[Little Bill]

Through the extraordinary stupidity of Byzantine rulers after Basil II thy destroyed themselves.

[SunkenCiv]

The History Channel did a miniseries of sorts, “Engineering An Empire”, which has an episode on Constantinople, which includes a segment about Basil the Bulgar Slayer.

[Mmogamer]

Eh? The Fourth Crusade was a coalition of western armies.. I wasn't aware it was only Luxembourg..