I’m not certain we really want to get into the lives of medieval religious figures.
“Pope Alexander VI[1] (1 January 1431 – 18 August 1503), born Roderic Llançol, later Roderic de Borja i Borja (Italian: Rodrigo Borgia) was Pope from 1492 to 1503. He is the most controversial of the secular popes of the Renaissance, and his surname (Italianized as Borgia) became a byword for the debased standards of the papacy of that era....Of Alexander’s many mistresses the one for whom his passion lasted longest was a certain Vannozza (Giovanna) dei Cattani, born in 1442, and wife of three successive husbands. The connection began in 1470, and she bore him four children whom he openly acknowledged as his own: Giovanni, afterwards duke of Gandia (born 1474), Cesare (born 1476), Lucrezia (born 1480), and Goffredo or Giuffre (born 1481 or 1482). His other children – Girolamo, Isabella and Pier Luigi – were of uncertain parentage. Before his elevation to the papacy Cardinal Borgia’s passion for Vannozza somewhat diminished, and she subsequently led a very retired life. Her place in his affections was filled by the beautiful Giulia Farnese (Giulia Bella), wife of an Orsini, but his love for his children by Vannozza remained as strong as ever and proved, indeed, the determining factor of his whole career. He lavished vast sums on them and loaded them with every honour. The atmosphere of Alexander’s household is typified by the fact that his daughter Lucrezia lived with his mistress Giulia, who bore him a daughter, Laura, in 1492.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_VI#Mistresses_and_family
You wrote:
“I’m not certain we really want to get into the lives of medieval religious figures.”
I would be happy to. Tell me how many mistresses St. Francis had? St. Bernard of Clairvaux? Pope Innocent III?
Were there bad men? Yes. Did that change with the coming of Protestantism? No. Western standards were just lowered and have remained low ever since.
Wow. Pope Alexander. He seems to be to certain FReeper protestants what the racism card is to Democrats. No matter what the issue, you can stop any serious discussion by pulling him out.
Like I stated at the very start of the thread, the purpose is not to launch an ad-hominem attack against Luther to undermine Protestant theology, but rather to present the gravity of the heresies which necessitated the Catholic response to Luther.