Posted on 06/15/2009 1:42:58 PM PDT by NYer
“All” would include Matthew, so yes, actually, you did get a verse about Matthew.
Well, what comes after Maccabees and before Mark in your Bible?
OK, forget the table of contents. What comes after Philemon and before James in your Bible?
I was a Catholic once. Never again will I put myself under the authority of the Catholic Church. I was merely pointing out the inconsistencies in your argument—Matthew and Hebrews are both in the Catholic Bible. Therefore it is inconsistent for you to suggest that the Catholic Church doesn’t consider Matthew and Hebrews to be inspired.
You have done a masterful (though probably unintentional) job of pointing out the danger in following the doctrines and traditions of men when they contrast with God’s word. I suspect that’s why you’re suggesting that you don’t consider Matthew or Hebrews to be inspired—because it doesn’t support your argument in favor of the Catholic Church’s version of the priesthood, which is most definitely in conflict with what God’s word says.
When someone points out a Scripture that undermines your arguments, you claim or suggest that it isn’t inspired. That may be convenient for your purposes, but it doesn’t alter the reality that there is no biblical basis whatsoever for the Catholic Church’s version of the priesthood.
Call me a Protestant if you like. That doesn’t bother me. It’s not the label I would choose for myself, but it doesn’t bother me. There is definitely much to protest regarding the Catholic Church. I love the people in that religious system enough to tell them that they (like myself and every other person on earth—regardless of religion, nationality, skin color, etc.) must be born again or they face a godless eternity in hell, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. I can’t depend on my church (Catholic or otherwise) to make me right in God’s sight. I can’t depend on my works, either.
Ephesians 2:8-9 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Again, those are God’s words, not mine. You can reject them or try to explain them away if you like, but that doesn’t alter their truth. Fair warning: if you reject them, you’re in direct conflict with God, and that’s a fearful place to be.
Let me know if you think you’ve done enough to justify yourself in His holy sight. As for myself, I’ll lean on His precious promises and rejoice in the fact that I will spend eternity with my Savior—because of what He did and not because of anything I’ve done. Nothing that any of us could ever do would merit what Jesus did for us. I’m so glad that He doesn’t expect or ask us to merit it. All He asks us to do is accept it.
So, the ball is in your court.
You wrote:
“So the article “THE” would still be incorrect. For thirty years, to those who say, “THE Greek,” I have been asking, “WHICH Greek is THE Greek?” (That is, that they happen to be referring to.)”
You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill here. Unless you can find a Greek ms. that has “father” in caps, then you’re still just making amountain out of a molehill in regard to my actual comment because this is what I wrote: “You think it’s in caps in the Greek mss.?”
“I know what I’m asking. My major in college was Manuscript Evidence. You can, any day of the world, purchase more than a dozen Greek NT editions, all of them having variations from the others.”
Actually, the variants of importance are few and far between.
He did no such thing.
I truly appreciate your support! I’m willing to accept the risk of being attacked if there’s a chance that even one person will be pointed to the Lord and His word. Matthew 5:10-12. God bless!
So, are all the people who were members of the Catholic Church from the Pentecost up until Luther’s Reformation burning in hell? I would like to understand what you think about this.
You wrote:
“Peter had a mother-in-law, but that was not HIS wife? WHAT???!”
Are you suggesting that his mother-in-law was his wife? You’re not making any sense at all. There is no evidence that Peter’s wife was alive.
“Your ref. to 1 Cor. ch. 7 indicates that Paul was not married. Which is true. I stated that Paul could have previously been married. Then you imply that Peter COULD HAVE BEEN prciously married, by stating that there is no evidence that he was married while Jesus was on earth.”
Exactly.
“So the same kind of thing could apply to Paul. He could have been a widower.”
Doubtful, because when he wrote of marriage he never mentioned a wife.
“But then Paul states in the same book, chapter 9, that he had the power (authority) to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as the other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, AND AS CEPHAS. Cepahs is Peter.”
Yes, and...?
“So it looks like Peter was married, had a mother-in-law, and Peter was leading his wife about with him, as were the other apostles and the brethren of the Lord.”
No. You are making an assumption. Notice how it says sister? Notice how many translations say “believing wife” or “Christian wife”? It doesn’t mean PETER’S wife. It means a woman from the Christian community who would essentially consecrated to that duty.
“Paul had the power/right ot do the same thing, but elected not to.”
Right, but it doesn’t mean that Peter led about HIS OWN wife.
Not sure why you posted this to me also since I said nothing about celibacy.
You wrote:
““All” would include Matthew, so yes, actually, you did get a verse about Matthew.”
No. You are assuming that Matthew is scripture from the start. I asked you for a verse that said Matthew IS scripture. There isn’t one in the Bible. So, how do you know Matthew is scripture? How do you KNOW?
“Well, what comes after Maccabees and before Mark in your Bible?”
It doesn’t matter what’s in my Bible if I am asking you about what is in YOUR Bible. Where is the verse IN YOUR BIBLE that says, “Matthew’s book is inspired scripture”?
“OK, forget the table of contents. What comes after Philemon and before James in your Bible?”
How do you know James is inspired? How do you know Philemon is inspired? How do you know Hebrews is inspired? How do you KNOW?
“I was a Catholic once. Never again will I put myself under the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Then you better find those verses I’m asking for. Otherwise, you are COMPLETELY dependent upon the Catholic Church for your belief in the canon of the New Testament. Het it now? If you deny that, fine, but at least offer some sort of logical and cohesive response. Can you?
“I was merely pointing out the inconsistencies in your argument—Matthew and Hebrews are both in the Catholic Bible.”
There are no inconsistencies in my argument. I know why I believe what I believe about Matthew. Can you logically explain why you believe what you believe about Matthew. Can you?
“Therefore it is inconsistent for you to suggest that the Catholic Church doesn’t consider Matthew and Hebrews to be inspired.”
I never once suggested that. I defy you to show me where I ever even remotely suggested a thing. I am asking YOU about YOUR beliefs, not mine. You have thus far utterly failed to post evidence for what you believe. EPIC FAIL.
“You have done a masterful (though probably unintentional) job of pointing out the danger in following the doctrines and traditions of men when they contrast with God’s word.”
Oh, you poor man. I have repeatedly asked you to post even a single verse that showed what you believe about Matthew and you never posted a single one that mentioned Matthew’s gospel. Not one. YOU ARE THE ONE FOLLOWING A TRADITION OF MEN. Your Protestant tradition - with no scriptural support whatsoever - says that Matthew’s gospel is inspired and was written by Matthew. You are apparently too hard hearted to realize that you have no scripture for what you believe yet you accuse me of following a tradition of men. You look for the speck in my eye and ignore the beam in your own. How sad.
“I suspect that’s why you’re suggesting that you don’t consider Matthew or Hebrews to be inspired—because it doesn’t support your argument in favor of the Catholic Church’s version of the priesthood, which is most definitely in conflict with what God’s word says.”
You’re completely wrong. I never once suggested that I don’t believe Matthew or Hebrews is inspired. I asked you to show it by scripture and you utterly failed to do so. You believe in the Catholic canon of the New Testament. You are under the authority of the Catholic Church in that regard yet you impishly insist you will never be under her authority. Buddy, you already are. You believe in OUR New Testament, OUR canon. You believe in OUR gospel of Matthew and OUR attribution to Matthew. None of that is backed up AT ALL ANYWHERE in scripture. No where.
“When someone points out a Scripture that undermines your arguments, you claim or suggest that it isn’t inspired.”
That’s not what I did or am doing. I am not surprised, however, that you were too hard hearted to see the truth. No surprise there at all.
“That may be convenient for your purposes, but it doesn’t alter the reality that there is no biblical basis whatsoever for the Catholic Church’s version of the priesthood.”
And what is the Biblical basis for saying Matthew wrote a gospel? Show me the verse. I keep asking, and I get nothing. EPIC FAIL on your part.
“Call me a Protestant if you like. That doesn’t bother me.”
It doesn’t matter what I like. You’re a Protestant. Hence, I call you a Protestant.
“Let me know if you think you’ve done enough to justify yourself in His holy sight.”
Nope. And neither can you. And you can’t even justify why you believe in the Catholic New Testament.
“As for myself, I’ll lean on His precious promises and rejoice in the fact that I will spend eternity with my Savior—because of what He did and not because of anything I’ve done. Nothing that any of us could ever do would merit what Jesus did for us. I’m so glad that He doesn’t expect or ask us to merit it. All He asks us to do is accept it.”
I agree. It’s a shame you reject His work.
“So, the ball is in your court.”
No, it will always remain in yours. When you can find a verse that proves why you believe in the gospel of Matthew rather than just believe what the Catholci Church teaches about Matthew’s inspiration, let me know.
I’ll be waiting the rest of my life.
I certainly am part of the Body of Christ. If you want to add me to the roles in Vatican City, have at it. I just don’t need it the way your guys claim.
So...was that a “yes”?
The New Testament doe not teach devotion to Mary or bowing to images and statues of Mary and the Saints. That’s idolatry. That’s another reason I’m not a Catholic. After Acts Chapter 1 Mary is never mentioned again in the Bible. None of the Apostles mention Mary in their epistles to the churches.
Oh, a Dan Brown reader, eh?
Sorry, never picked up his junk.
Yet you sound like you do.
Do you imagine there are Catholic membership cards issued by the Vatican?
Didn’t say cards. But, please, just a simple yes or no.
Does official Catholic Church doctrine of the sacraments require membership with the Church in Vatican City to assure salvation?
I suggest you read Christ’s words in John 6.
The Church’s position (I learned this when I converted) is that all Christian denominations possess some portion of the truth, but that the Catholic Church possesses the entirety of truth.
As I understood our priest (and this was a sticking point for me as a convert) non-Catholic Christians will also be saved, but it may take them longer to get through Purgatory. (And Catholics go to Purgatory as well unless they are exceptionally holy).
No.
I don’t know. The true state of a person’s relationship with God is known only to that individual and the Lord.
There is no Purgatory. There is no Scriptural support for the concept of Purgatory. The concept of Purgatory is a myth, a complete fabrication of men. That’s why we need to stick to God’s word, not man’s word.
I don’t reject Jesus’ work. I reject the Catholic Church’s work, which has very little to do with Jesus’ work.
You seem to be more interested in trying to discredit the portions of God’s word that contrast with your positions than in taking the Lord’s message to heart. That is your prerogative, but I think it’s one you will ultimately regret.
I don’t feel the need to defend God’s word. The Lord doesn’t need me to defend Him. I have engaged in this discussion with you in the hope that you and others would benefit from an honest discussion of God’s word. It seems like you just want to argue. Perhaps you’re trying to convince yourself of the statements you’re making. Maybe down deep you don’t even believe what you’re saying.
I have said it before, I’ll say it again. It’s God’s word, not mine. If you don’t accept it, that’s your choice. Of course, there are consequences to every choice we make. We each bear the responsibility for those choices and their consequences. Your conflict isn’t with me; it’s with the word of God.
You asked how I know that Matthew, James, Philemon and Hebrews are inspired. I know because the Lord said so. Again, God’s word (2 Timothy 3:16) says that ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God. That would include Mathew, James, Philemon, Hebrews and whatever other book in the Bible that you might care to question.
1 John 5:9-10: “If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.”
So, perhaps now you’ll try to suggest that the book of 1 John isn’t inspired either. That’s your choice—and again, you alone will bear the consequences of your choice.
In Acts 5:29, Peter and the other apostles clearly stated that we ought to obey God rather than men. Tht’s why I will cling to God’s word, rather than man’s word. You can accept or reject the word of God—that’s your choice, and you alone will bear the consequences of that choice.
You can serve the Catholic Church if you want to. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord (Joshua 24:15).
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