Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ex-Catholic Priest Alberto Cutie Prepares to Wed After Scandal
laht ^ | June 14, 2009

Posted on 06/14/2009 1:53:07 PM PDT by NYer

MIAMI – Ex-Catholic priest Alberto Cutie will wed in two weeks, after sparking a scandal when he was photographed nuzzling his girlfriend on a Miami beach, The Miami Herald newspaper said.

The wedding will be held in an Episcopal church here at a private ceremony for which several ex-police have been hired to ensure security, according to sources close to the religious.

Cutie, born in Puerto Rico of Cuban descent, left the Catholic Church after the photos were published and weeks later announced that he was joining the Episcopal Church, for which he has already given his first sermon.

The marriage of Cutie, 40, and the Guatemalan Ruhama Buni Canellis, 35, the divorced mother of a teenage boy, will be officiated by Bishop Leo Frade, head of the Episcopal Diocese of Southeast Florida, according to the daily.

After hiding her love relationship with the priest from the public for the past two years, the Guatemalan woman appeared smiling together with Cutie at the end of May at Miami’s Trinity Episcopal Cathedral.

She joined Cutie for a ceremony where Bishop Frade announced that Father Alberto had become a member of the Episcopal Church and wanted to be ordained a priest.

The Episcopal Church does not require priestly celibacy.

The scandal broke out in mid-May when the tabloid TVnotas USA published 25 photos of the couple, in one of which Cutie was snapped putting his hand in Canellis’ bikini bottom.

Cutie hosted radio and TV programs in the United States and Latin America, and was considered one of the most influential Hispanics in this country.

His photos, seen around the world, again raised the subject of celibacy in the Catholic Church.

Popular reaction in Florida and in the rest of the country among Catholics has been enormous and many have expressed their opinions on whether or not Catholic priests should be required to remain celibate.


TOPICS: Catholic; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: adulterer; cutie; episcopal; miami

1 posted on 06/14/2009 1:53:07 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: NYer

May God have mercy on their souls....


2 posted on 06/14/2009 1:54:13 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified DeCartes))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

So, if he is an Episcopalian priest and gets married, couldn’t he later become a Catholic priest? Or has he burnt that bridge? The Church does allow for married ministers/priests of other religions to become Catholic priests.


3 posted on 06/14/2009 1:56:05 PM PDT by conservative cat (America, you have been PWNED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
That was quick.

In anticipation of the questions, here are the answers.


5 Arguments Against Priestly Celibacy

  1. Allowing priests to marry would end pedophilia.

    It is completely untrue that celibate priests are more likely to be pedophiles than any other group of men, married or not. Pedophilia affects only 0.3 percent of the population of Catholic clergy, and sexual abusers in general account for less than 2 percent of Catholic priests. These figures are comparable to rates among married men, as non-Catholic scholar Philip Jenkins points out in his book Pedophiles and Priests. Other Protestant denominations have admitted to having similar problems among their own married clergy, so clearly the problem is not with celibacy.

  2. A married clergy would create a larger pool of healthy priestly candidates, solving the current priest shortage.

    There are actually plenty of vocations today in faithful dioceses: Denver, Northern Virginia, and Lincoln, Nebraska, have great numbers of men entering the priesthood. If other dioceses, such as Milwaukee, want to answer the question of why they have so few vocations, the answer is simple: Challenge young men to a religious life that is demanding, countercultural, sacrificial, and loyal to the Holy Father and Catholic teaching. This is the surest way to guarantee a greater number of vocations.

  3. Married priests relate better to issues concerning marriage and the family.

    To put it bluntly, one doesn't need to be an adulterer to counsel other adulterers. Priests understand the sacrificial nature and sanctity of marriage in a way that few others do. Who better to counsel a person in the ways of keeping the marital vow of fidelity than one who keeps the vow of celibacy?

  4. It's unnatural for men to be celibate.

    This idea reduces men to animals, creatures who can't live without their sexual urges being gratified. But humans are not animals. Humans make choices about the gratification of their appetites. We can control and channel our desires in a way that sets us apart from the rest of the animal world. And again, most sexual abusers are not celibate. It's sexual license that breeds sexual abuse, not celibacy!

  5. Celibacy in the Latin rite is unfair. Since the Eastern rite allows married priests and the Latin rite allows married priests who have converted from Episcopalianism and Lutheranism, why can't all priests be married?

    The discipline of celibacy among priests is one of the distinctive marks of the Roman Catholic tradition. Anyone who chooses to become a priest accepts the discipline. The Eastern rite, Lutheranism, and Episcopalianism, on the other hand, have a long tradition of married priests and the infrastructure and experience to handle it. However, Eastern rite priests and married priests who have converted from Lutheranism or Episcopalianism are NOT allowed to marry after their ordination or remarry after the death of their wife. In addition, the Eastern Church only chooses bishops from among their celibate, unmarried priests, clearly demonstrating that they see an inherent value in the nature of celibacy.

 

5 Arguments for Priestly Celibacy

  1. Celibacy reaffirms marriage.

    In a society that is completely saturated with sex, celibate priests are living proof that sexual urges can be controlled and channeled in a positive way. Far from denigrating the sexual act, celibacy acknowledges the goodness of sex within marriage by offering it up as a sacrifice to God. The sanctity of marriage is dishonored if it is treated merely as an outlet for sexual impulses. Rather, we as Christians are called to understand marriage as the inviolable commitment of a husband and wife to love and honor one another. A priest offers up a similar commitment of love to the Church, a bond that cannot be broken and that is treated with the same gravity and respect as in marriage.

  2. Celibacy is scriptural.

    Challenge young men to a religious life that is demanding, countercultural, sacrificial, and loyal to the Holy Father and Catholic teaching. This is the surest way to guarantee a greater number of vocations.

    Fundamentalists will tell you that celibacy has no basis in the Bible whatsoever, saying that Christians are called to "Be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:28). This mandate speaks to humanity in general, however, and overlooks numerous passages in the Bible that support the celibate life. In 1 Corinthians, for example, Paul actually seems to prefer the celibate life: "Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . . Those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided" (7:27-34). This is not to say that all men should be celibate, however; Paul explains that celibacy is a calling for some and not for others by saying, "Each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another" (7:7).

    Jesus Himself speaks of celibacy in Matthew 19:11-12: "Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it." Again, the emphasis is on the special nature of celibacy, one for which not all men are suited, but one that nevertheless gives glory to "the kingdom of God."

    Perhaps the best evidence for the scriptural support of celibacy is that Jesus Himself practiced it!

  3. Celibacy is historical.

    Most people assume that the celibate priesthood is a convention introduced by the Church fairly late in history. On the contrary, there is evidence that even the earliest Church fathers, such as St. Augustine, St. Cyril, and St. Jerome, fully supported the celibate priesthood. The Spanish Council of Elvira (between 295 and 302) and the First Council of Aries (314), a kind of general council of the West, both enacted legislation forbidding all bishops, priests, and deacons to have conjugal relations with their wives on penalty of exclusion from the clergy. Even the wording of these documents suggests that the councils were not introducing a new rule but rather maintaining a previously established tradition. In 385, Pope Siricius issued the first papal decree on the subject, saying that "clerical continence" was a tradition reaching as far back as apostolic times. While later councils and popes would pass similar edicts, the definitive promulgation of the celibate, unmarried priesthood came at the Second Lateran Council in 1139 under Pope Gregory VII. Far from being a law forced upon the medieval priesthood, it was the acceptance of celibacy by priests centuries earlier that eventually led to its universal promulgation in the twelfth century.

  4. Celibacy emphasizes the unique role of the priest.

    The priest is a representative of Christ, an alter Christus. In this respect, the priest understands his identity by following the example of Jesus, a man who lived His life in perfect chastity and dedication to God. As Archbishop Crescenzio Sepe of Grado explains, "[A priest's] being and his acting must be like Christ's: undivided" (The Relevance of Priestly Celibacy Today, 1993). As such, the sacramental priesthood is holy, something set apart from the rest of the world. Just as Christ sacrificed His life for His bride, the Church, so too must a priest offer up his life for the good of Christ's people.

  5. Celibacy allows the priest's first priority to be the Church.

    The image used to describe the role of the priest is one of marriage to the Church. Just as marriage is the total gift of self to another, the priesthood requires the total gift of self to the Church. A priest's first duty is to his flock, while a husband's first duty is to his wife. Obviously, these two roles will often conflict, as St. Paul noted and as many married priests will tell you. A celibate priest is able to give his undivided attention to his parishioners without the added responsibility of caring for his own family. They are able to pick up and go whenever necessary, whether this involves moving to a new parish or responding to a late-night crisis. Celibate priests are better able to respond to these frequent changes and demands on their time and attention.

4 posted on 06/14/2009 1:57:38 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: conservative cat
So, if he is an Episcopalian priest and gets married, couldn’t he later become a Catholic priest?

No. He broke his first vow and excommunicated himself when he knelt down before the Episcopal bishop.

5 posted on 06/14/2009 2:14:50 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I cannot begrudge a man for marrying. God Bless them both. Celibacy may be a worthy goal, but it is not an essential one. As for his premarital activities — that Priests are sinners, like the rest of us, is not a new revelation.

SnakeDoc


6 posted on 06/14/2009 2:16:04 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("The night is darkest just before the dawn -- but I promise you, the dawn is coming." -- Harvey Dent)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
To put it bluntly, one doesn't need to be an adulterer to counsel other adulterers.

As a sacrementaly married man I take offense to that comment.

7 posted on 06/14/2009 2:17:29 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Excellent post!

My son is entering seminary minor next fall. He has always wanted to be a priest as long as he can remember. I have one son older than him and one son younger than him. My oldest was always interested in girls, since like 13 or 14. He is now 22 and getting married this winter. My youngest, who is almost 16, is now showing an interest in girls/dating. He is attending a theology of the body seminar through our local parish before he is allowed to start dating (as did my oldest). My middle son, while he likes girls, and wouldn’t turn down the opportunity to go to the movies or to dinner with a girl, and fully intends to attend his senior prom next year, has no real desire to date, especially seriously. We just recently had this discussion. He said he is more curious as to what it is like to date or have a girlfriend, than feel it as a need. He likens it to trying bungee jumping, in his mind. He has also stated emphatically that if he had to give up fishing to enter the priesthood, he probably couldn’t do that, but marriage/girls/sex/children, thats fine LOL. My oldest cannot comprehend this.

Anyone who thinks that God does not provide sufficent grace to handle every situation He calls you to is wrong. I have watched it day after day in my own home with my 3 boys. God has provided my oldest with the vocation of marriage, and a woman who is equal to the task. He has provided my middle son the contentment and peace of celibacy, God has given him every gift and grace he needs to be equal to the task. He has provided these gifts for my youngest son as well, he just isn’t sure which of them he is called to as of yet, so he is discerning whether he is called to marriage or religous life and part of that for him is dating.

Perhaps if Father Cutie had realized he was called to marriage and obeyed, and became a deacon, none of this would have happened in the first place. We can only have one vocation in life, either married or single. Most called to be single are called to religious life in some way. Regardless, ALL are called to chastity whether married or single, and Fr. Cutie let his congregation down mightily in this respect. Shame on him. If your priest can hook up, how do you teach your children not to???????


8 posted on 06/14/2009 2:17:42 PM PDT by wombtotomb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Kind of like King Henry the VIII, if the rules don’t suit him he changes churches....

WHICH he never would’ve done if he hadn’t been caught. They aught to remove him from office not sanctify his behavior with a position of office.


9 posted on 06/14/2009 2:22:04 PM PDT by Beowulf9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

TTIWWP


10 posted on 06/14/2009 2:28:18 PM PDT by SeaHawkFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

She’s not unattractive, but nothing special. Wouldn’t give her a second look when it comes to being attractive.


11 posted on 06/14/2009 2:34:56 PM PDT by SeaHawkFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SnakeDoctor
I cannot begrudge a man for marrying.Celibacy may be a worthy goal, but it is not an essential one.

No one begrudges him for leaving the priesthood and marrying. And, you are right, celibacy is not an essential goal. Neither is the issue here. He broke a vow made to God. He understood what that vow was prior to ordination.

12 posted on 06/14/2009 2:47:02 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Last Dakotan
To put it bluntly, one doesn't need to be an adulterer to counsel other adulterers. As a sacrementaly married man I take offense to that comment.

No one is suggesting that you are an adulterer. The arguments against priestly celibacy include: Married priests relate better to issues concerning marriage and the family.

The argument against that statement was:

To put it bluntly, one doesn't need to be an adulterer to counsel other adulterers. Priests understand the sacrificial nature and sanctity of marriage in a way that few others do. Who better to counsel a person in the ways of keeping the marital vow of fidelity than one who keeps the vow of celibacy?

My Catholic pastor is from one of the Eastern Churches. His grandfather was a married priest; my pastor, however, intentionally chose the celibate life. It allows him to devote all his attention to his parish community without worrying about the demands that accompany marriage. Why would you take offense at that?

13 posted on 06/14/2009 2:54:35 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: NYer

That is between him and the Almighty. Salvation is a glorious thing.

SnakeDoc


14 posted on 06/14/2009 2:54:51 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("The night is darkest just before the dawn -- but I promise you, the dawn is coming." -- Harvey Dent)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: wombtotomb

Thank you for sharing such a personal testimony of your 3 sons. You have recognized how God calls men to serve through the example of your middle son. My prayers for him and all of you as he enters seminary minor. As Fr. Corapi often reminds us: No priest! No eucharist! We need priests and God, in His great wisdom, calls these men by imbuing in them the graces necessary to pursue this calling. Please keep me apprised of his journey. May God richly bless you for this gift to the Catholic Church.


15 posted on 06/14/2009 3:03:49 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SeaHawkFan

??????


16 posted on 06/14/2009 3:05:31 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Excellent post- thanks!


17 posted on 06/14/2009 3:23:28 PM PDT by Steelfish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Oh, this just keeps getting better and better:

“The marriage of Cutie, 40, and the Guatemalan Ruhama Buni Canellis, 35, the divorced mother of a teenage boy, will be officiated by Bishop Leo Frade, head of the Episcopal Diocese of Southeast Florida, according to the daily.”

What? Where’s the Protestant poster who got mad at me because I said Canellis was a bimbo now? Not only was there fornication, but now there’s a strong hint at adultery too. Lovely, just lovely!


18 posted on 06/14/2009 3:28:32 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Not all married are adulterers. The problems one has in marriage are not limited to adultery. To refer to their consult as consoling the adulterers is insulting.

Poor choice of words.

19 posted on 06/14/2009 5:23:47 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: conservative cat
The Holy See has not dispensed Cutie from his vow of celibacy.

Not only has he burnt the bridge he and his bimbo have made a sizable down payment on an extremely unpleasant eternity.

20 posted on 06/14/2009 7:10:25 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SnakeDoctor

Serious character flaws don’t merit a benediction. Before it’s all said and done Cutie will end being as unfaithful to the divorced bimbo he allowed to seduce him as he has been to Christ.


21 posted on 06/14/2009 7:16:37 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Last Dakotan

Poor comprehension on your part.


22 posted on 06/14/2009 7:18:55 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham

She should be worried. If he can’t keep his vow with God whats the chances of honoring his marriage vow?


23 posted on 06/14/2009 7:34:51 PM PDT by Radl (sai)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham

Thanks for your kind thoughts...


24 posted on 06/14/2009 8:04:46 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Last Dakotan

Where ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise.


25 posted on 06/15/2009 2:59:28 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham
“he and his bimbo have made a sizable down payment on an extremely unpleasant eternity.”

I'm sadly amused at people; who whether they be Roman Catholic,and believe in purgatory, or if they be subscribers to that unfortunate segment of Protestantism which cannot be certain of salvation; can be and often are highly certain of another’s eternal damnation.

Will Wallace

26 posted on 06/15/2009 6:07:32 AM PDT by will of the people
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: NYer

well, it appears he didn’t believe in much of anything. And she’s in for an ugly reality, marriage is hard work, and his past behavior shows he jumps ship when things get hard.


27 posted on 06/15/2009 6:30:33 AM PDT by mockingbyrd (Dick Cheney gets results!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Allowing priests to marry would end pedophilia. It is completely untrue that celibate priests are more likely to be pedophiles than any other group of men, married or not. Pedophilia affects only 0.3 percent of the population of Catholic clergy, and sexual abusers in general account for less than 2 percent of Catholic priests. These figures are comparable to rates among married men, as non-Catholic scholar Philip Jenkins points out in his book Pedophiles and Priests. Other Protestant denominations have admitted to having similar problems among their own married clergy, so clearly the problem is not with celibacy.

Celibacy has nothing to do with Pedophilia. Extremely few, if any, Catholic priests have been guilty of Pedophilia. What priests have been found guilty of is called "Ephebophilia- which is sex with teen age boys. This is because as many have reported, ( Cozzens, Greeley, McBride ) of “the significant number of homosexually oriented men in the priesthood.“ It is possible that a more significant number of married priests might reduce the incidence of Ephebophilia by the homosexually oriented but that is questionable as they tend to form their own culture to which the heterosexuals do not relate. It is hard to argue any relationship between celibacy and pedophilia (or Ephebophilia) other than the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual men in the priesthood.

28 posted on 06/15/2009 9:31:51 AM PDT by VidMihi ("In fide, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NYer
A married clergy would create a larger pool of healthy priestly candidates, solving the current priest shortage. There are actually plenty of vocations today in faithful dioceses: Denver, Northern Virginia, and Lincoln, Nebraska, have great numbers of men entering the priesthood. If other dioceses, such as Milwaukee, want to answer the question of why they have so few vocations, the answer is simple: Challenge young men to a religious life that is demanding, countercultural, sacrificial, and loyal to the Holy Father and Catholic teaching. This is the surest way to guarantee a greater number of vocations.

If one subtracts the foreign imports, there is anything but great numbers of men entering the priesthood. The idea that a married priest is any less capable of service to the Church is an insult to those married in other rites and the married men in Protestant Churches who are "converting Catholics to Christ" away from the Church where they were so poorly instructed because of the shortage of priests. Now if their celibacy is more important than the mission of the Church, then I guess that's OK.

29 posted on 06/15/2009 9:45:53 AM PDT by VidMihi ("In fide, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: VidMihi
The idea that a married priest is any less capable of service to the Church is an insult to those married in other rites

Not at all! In fact, the majority of married priest converts from the Episcopal Church, say they have a better appreciation for the vow of celibacy. Since marriage is the first vow taken, the married priest must place his wife before the parish. Not so for the celibate priests who can and do devote most of their time to the parish community.

Married Priests Back Celibacy (Part 1 of 2)

30 posted on 06/15/2009 10:24:30 AM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: VidMihi
If one subtracts the foreign imports, there is anything but great numbers of men entering the priesthood

A few possible explanation could be drawn from this statement. Not sure what you are getting at. Need to clarify.

My feeling is, the above statement maybe a reflection of our home grown American contraceptive mentality, where a family has an average of something like 1.3 kids. Naturally, giving up a kid to serve the church is tough. Perhaps we need to learn from those backward immigrants about bigger families like we once had and still live a poor but joyful life, and able to give a kid or 2 out of maybe 3 or 4, instead of 1.3

Not sure you are implying that "foreign born" trained priests trained by American seminaries are of inferior quality. You will have to clarify for the discussion. If I simply look at the stats, at my diocesan level, over 50% of seminarians are foreign born, so you are right about the stats. But at the parish level, at least at my parish, 2 out of 3 aspiring seminarians are foreign born, they came here like under 5 years old and, for all intent and purpose, they are like home grown Americans to me.

31 posted on 06/15/2009 10:32:55 AM PDT by m4629
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Indeed.

Take my pastor, he is on the “first to call” list from the county hospital simply because our parish is less than 10 blocks away. The county hospital has a trauma unit and lots of gun shot cases. If he was married, getting the extra calls from the county in the middle of the night more than once a week would be a real drag.


32 posted on 06/15/2009 10:40:07 AM PDT by m4629
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: conservative cat

Practically, I cannot see it happening. Is it a possibility? These are the hurdles.

1. His new marriage would be illicit. He’d have to normalize it. When Protestants convert, their marriage needs no normalization. When Catholics defect in order to get married, however, they have a problem.

2. His holy orders are invalidated by his marriage. Anglican priests accepted into the Catholic Church need to have a valid priesthood. That’s normally rare, since they have to establish apostolic succession through their entire lineage of ordination, with every member in the succession being possibly schismatic, but not apostate. In his case, he, himself, invalidated his orders.

3. He’s excommunicated. He’d have to get absolved by his bishop, at least. I think the Vatican needs to be involved, though, because he was a priest.

4. Should he attempt to repent, and be absolved, and un-excommunicated (?!) and his orders somehow found to be valid, his persistence in his current, married state would make it hard to believe sincerity. He’d probably need to get the marriage annulled.


33 posted on 06/15/2009 12:30:09 PM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: dangus
Among other things -” His holy orders are invalidated by his marriage.” - No way - Go back to the Baltimore catechism - Once a priest always a priest. Any Mass he may celebrate is a valid Mass. Good thing you don't pretend to be a canon lawyer - or maybe you are one of those new JPII lawyers?
34 posted on 06/15/2009 12:56:13 PM PDT by VidMihi ("In fide, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Celibacy in the Latin rite is unfair. Since the Eastern rite allows married priests and the Latin rite allows married priests who have converted from Episcopalianism and Lutheranism, why can't all priests be married? The discipline of celibacy among priests is one of the distinctive marks of the Roman Catholic tradition. Anyone who chooses to become a priest accepts the discipline. The Eastern rite, Lutheranism, and Episcopalianism, on the other hand, have a long tradition of married priests and the infrastructure and experience to handle it. However, Eastern rite priests and married priests who have converted from Lutheranism or Episcopalianism are NOT allowed to marry after their ordination or remarry after the death of their wife. In addition, the Eastern Church only chooses bishops from among their celibate, unmarried priests, clearly demonstrating that they see an inherent value in the nature of celibacy.

Unfair to whom? Certainly not to the priest who chooses to be celibate. Maybe it is not fair to some of those not religious, and therefore not living in community, who all too frequently become unhappy, bitter old men, who take their frustrations out on their parishioners or on younger priests. An article I was reading today in Fortune Small Business says that 60% of those who leave a company quit a boss rather than quit the company. Did anyone ever ask why the 10,000 American priests who resigned did so - the presumption is marriage, but the reality may be because of the pastor or bishop, or the fear they would end up like some of the old priests they had to deal with. Would be an interesting study. Most good priests are not in the priesthood for themselves but rather for a rightly idealistic desire to serve the people. Many leave, I suspect, not for selfish reasons but because their desire to serve became the obligation to obey, which they would have gladly done in the interest of service but not in the interest if Episcopal control.

If celibacy is unfair it is to the people who are deprived of good priestly service.

35 posted on 06/15/2009 1:40:17 PM PDT by VidMihi ("In fide, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: m4629
Doctors, who are married and with families get such calls. So do men who are members of volunteer fire departments across the country. So do Protestant pastors when one of their people is ill. Aw, poor Father.
36 posted on 06/15/2009 1:44:53 PM PDT by VidMihi ("In fide, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: dangus; m4629; conservative cat; gridlock
Is it a possibility?

There are no hurdles for Cutie. He has been excommunicated.

Father Alberto excommunicated himself by becoming Episcopalian, Miami archbishop says

Gridlock ... pinged you here in response to your comment on the other thread.

37 posted on 06/15/2009 1:57:23 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: conservative cat
So, if he is an Episcopalian priest and gets married, couldn’t he later become a Catholic priest? Or has he burnt that bridge? The Church does allow for married ministers/priests of other religions to become Catholic priests.

I think this is done on a case-by-case basis. I think, in this particular case, the answer will be a firm "no".

38 posted on 06/15/2009 2:07:03 PM PDT by gridlock (L'Etat, c'est Barack...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: mockingbyrd

“well, it appears he didn’t believe in much of anything. And she’s in for an ugly reality, marriage is hard work, and his past behavior shows HE JUMPS SHIP WHEN THINGS GET HARD.

Point taken!


39 posted on 06/15/2009 2:07:42 PM PDT by Mashood
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: VidMihi
Doctors, who are married and with families get such calls. So do men who are members of volunteer fire departments across the country. So do Protestant pastors when one of their people is ill. Aw, poor Father.

My take is, why should catholics settle for second or third best burnt out priests? There are physical limits. We as a prolife group could easily afford to supply a fresh team of celibate priests full time if we so choose. Why shouldn't we go for the best? Why would you settle for less?

Don't get me started by citing protestants. They have a poor track record of going with the lowest common denominator, on many issues.

40 posted on 06/15/2009 6:54:55 PM PDT by m4629
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: VidMihi
Doctors, who are married and with families get such calls. So do men who are members of volunteer fire departments across the country. So do Protestant pastors when one of their people is ill. Aw, poor Father.

Without touching the many sound theological reasons why priests should not be permitted to marry, there are endless practical reasons why they shouldn't.

Doctors work in shifts and are not on call every day of the year. Firefighters get mandated time off as well. I grew up best friends with a Methodist minister's daughter, and they saw their dad at night most nights.

Priests do not get that sort of time off. Knowing plenty of doctors and having worked for the Church in the parish office, I can assure you that priests do not get the same sort of down time. Not even close. By 8:00 AM, the priest had already served early mass, visited the school, worked on correspondence, etc.

If priests aren't in church (they celebrate Mass every day, seven days a week) they're taking care of church business, or they're visiting the sick and infirm, or they are teaching RCIA, or they are overseeing events at the local Parochial school(s), or they are doing fund raising, or they are doing pre-marital counseling, or they are counseling parishioners about various issues, or they are taking part in various feast days, or they are in confession, or in training, or they are doing paperwork, or they are preparing for the next Mass, or they are at a funeral, or a wedding, or a baptism, or a death bed or a blessing.

Many times, as we were leaving the parking lot after RCIA (9:30 or 10:00 at night) the priest would get in his car to go to the hospital or a private home for prayers. And he'd be at Mass again early the next morning.

With all due respect to them, priests would make terrible husbands as they would be totally unable to put their earthly family first and do the job God invited them to do.

41 posted on 06/15/2009 7:45:19 PM PDT by mountainbunny (Mitt Romney: Collect the whole set!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson