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Save Thyself and Thy Kindred!-LDS (OPEN)
LDS Gospel Library ^ | Bruce R. McConkie

Posted on 02/19/2009 7:51:22 AM PST by greyfoxx39

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Gospel Library 

A New Commandment:
Save Thyself and Thy Kindred!

By Bruce R. McConkie
Of the Council of the Tweve 

Tambuli, Aug 1977,

To the great joy of those who love the Lord and his holy word and who desire to be guided from on high, two heaven-sent revelations—both long known in the Church to be scripture!—were added to the standard works at the April 1976 general conference.

In solemn session in the holy temple on March 25, 1976, while the Spirit of the Lord attended, the First Presidency and the Twelve voted unanimously to add to the Pearl of Great Price the following:

A vision of the celestial kingdom, given to the Prophet Joseph Smith in the Kirtland Temple on January 21, 1836, which deals with the salvation of those who die without a knowledge of the gospel and also with the salvation of littie children; and

A vision given to President Joseph F. Smith in Salt Lake City, Utah, on October 3, 1918, showing the visit of the Lord Jesus Christ in the spirit world and setting forth the doctrine of the redemption of the dead.

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Based on deliberation and forethought, knowing full well the import and effect of the proposition then before them, fifteen men raised their hands to the square as those whom the Church sustains as prophets, seers, and revelators each certified his personal concurrence to the momentous motion then before them.

In the true Church, where there are apostles and prophets, nothing is better known or more greatly appreciated than the fact that the canon of scripture is not now and never will be full.

God speaks and his people hear. His words and his works are without end; they never cease (Moses 1:4, 38.)

Because he is no respecter of persons (Deut. 1:17; Acts 10:34) and chooses to honor and bless all those who love and serve him, the Lord pours out revelations and gives glorious visions to all those who obey the laws upon which the receipt of these spiritual gifts is predicated. Their receipt is not limited to prophets and apostles. All are alike into God where the outpouring of his gifts is concerned. And whatever any elder says when moved upon by the Holy Ghost is scripture. It is the will and mind and word and voice of the Lord. (D&C 68:1–4.)

From the days of the first dispensation it has been the practice of the Lord’s people to make selections from the scriptural utterances of those who are appointed to lead the Church and to publish these selections as formal and official scripture. All inspired sayings and writings are true and are and should be accepted and believed by all who call themselves Saints. But the revelations, visions, prophecies, and narrations selected and published for official use are thereby made binding upon the people in a particular and special sense. They become part of the standard works of the Church. They become the standards, the measuring rods, by which doctrine and procedure are determined.

By being added to the standard works, the Prophet’s vision of the celestial kingdom and President Joseph F. Smith’s vision of the redemption of the dead take on a new and added significance. They both contain gospel truths which are not otherwise found in the standard works, and they will now be cited and known more, and will be cross-referenced into the balance of the standard works as their subject matter requires.

That there are other revelations which might appropriately be given this additional dignity and formal stamp of approval is obvious.

There was nothing new about these two revelations on salvation for the dead. Their contents have been known; their provisions have been in force; their principles have been widely taught. But now, at this hour, with their addition to the formal scriptures of the saints, they become a new commandment—they become a new divine pronouncement both to say and to do all that is required in the soul-expanding doctrine of salvation for the dead.

Here is the chronological summary of how the 1939revelation of this soul-satisfying doctrine came to pass.

1. Salvation for the dead is Bible doctrine. This is perfectly clear to all of us now that we have received latter-day revelation. We now know what Jesus meant when he said, “The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live” (John 5:25), and the true meaning of his statement to the thief on the cross: “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). We can now understand Peter’s statements about our Lord’s ministry in the spirit world, where he preached the gospel while his body lay in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea (1 Pet. 3:18–20, 1 Pet. 4:6.) Paul’s statement about baptism for the dead now makes sense (1 Cor. 15:29), as do Isaiah’s and Zechariah’s statements about freeing the prisoners in the pit (Isa. 42:7, Isa. 49:9, Isa. 61:1, Zech. 9:11) and Obadiah’s prophecy about saviors who “shall come up on mount Zion” (Obad. 1:21). Even Malachi’s enigmatic promise that Elijah would come before the great and dreadful day of the Lord to “turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers,” lest the Lord come “and smite the earth with a curse” (Mal. 4:5–6)—even this takes on sense and meaning because the doctrine of salvation for the dead has been set out for us in plainness in latter-day revelation.

But in the beginning days of our era, we need not suppose that Joseph Smith understood these passages any more than the sectarian world does today.

2. Moroni begins the latter-day revelation of the doctrine of salvation for the dead. When Mormon’s son came to the first Latter-day Saint of modern times on that memorable night in September 1823, he revised and perfected the promise about the latter-day coming of Elijah.

Malachi’s promise that the Lord would send Elijah before the second coming was restated to say, “Behold, I will reveal unto you the Priesthood, by the hand of Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” The scriptural assurance that Elijah would turn the hearts of the fathers and the children to each other, lest the earth be smitten with a curse, was revised to read, “And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers. If it were not so, the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming.” (JS—H 1:38–39.)

These altered renditions of holy writ were destined to mean a great deal to Joseph Smith in due come. But in his then relatively untutored spiritual state, we cannot suppose that their full significance would burst upon him.

3. The Book of Mormon presents some very express and pointed views about salvation for the dead. Translated by the gift and power of God, this volume of holy scripture contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel, meaning that it is a record of God’s dealings with a people who had the fulness of the gospel, and it records the things which men must do to gain the fulness of salvation in the eternal worlds.

From it, Joseph Smith learned—as we all do!—that there is no such thing as salvation for the dead for those to whom the truth is offered in plainness and purity while they dwell in mortality. (see Alma 34, 32–33, 35–36; 3 Ne. 12–20.)

4. The Book of Moses alludes to the freeing of the prisoners in the pit. In the process of perfecting the text of the King James Version of the Bible, Joseph Smith learned by revelation in about December of 1830 that those who perished in the flood were shut up in prison, and were destined so to remain until Christ suffered for the sins of all men, until he pleaded for brethren who were in the spirit prison, and until he returned to his Father. “Until that day they shall be in torment,” the account records. (Moses 7:38–39.)

5. Freeing of prisoners from Noah’s day does not include a celestial reward. In what is probably the greatest of all recorded visions, given February 16, 1832, the Prophet saw that those to whom Noah offered the gospel and who were then destroyed in the flood, assuming they repent and accept the gospel in their spirit prison, shall not obtain celestial rest. Theirs is an everlasting terrestrial inheritance because they rejected the truth when it was offered to them in mortality. (See D&C 76:71, 73–74.)

6. The book of Abraham and the Doctrine and Covenants revealed the promises made to the fathers. Although they are alluded to in the Bible, the first plain and clear recitation of the promises made to the fathers is found in the Doctrine and Covenants and in the writings of Abraham, the translation of which latter work Joseph Smith began in July 1835.

The fathers involved are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Each of them in turn, for themselves and for their seed, received the promise that through celestial marriage, they and their seed after them would have posterity as numerous as the sands upon the seashore and as the stars of the heavens. They were also promised that in them and in their seed, all generations would be blessed. (Gen. 12:2–3; Gen. 13:16; Gen. 15:5–6; Gen. 17:1–8; Gen. 22:17–18; Gen. 26:3–5, 24; Gen. 28:3–4, 13–14; Gen. 35:11.)

As found in the book of Abraham, Jehovah’s promise to his friend Abraham included this assurance: “I give unto thee a promise that this right”—the right to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood—“shall continue” forever. That great patriarch was also promised, “In thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.” (Abr. 2:11.)

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—and their seed—have the natural right (such is the promise given them of God) to the priesthood, the gospel, and a fulness of salvation, which is eternal life! And this right extends to all of “the literal seed, or the seed of the body,” whether they lived when the gospel was on the earth or not! The eternal life spoken of grows out of celestial marriage. This knowledge is axiomatic among us.

7. Joseph Smith’s vision of the celestial kingdom: the first specific revelation on salvation for the dead. The day is January 21, 1836. The place is one of the upper rooms in the Kirtland Temple. Among those present are the Prophet Joseph Smith, his father Joseph Smith, Sr., Oliver Cowdery (the second elder, who held the keys of the kingdom jointly with the Prophet), and Sidney Rigdon and Frederick G. Williams, the counselors in the First Presidency. They are administering a partial endowment; the full ordinance of the endowment was being reserved for a future performance when a temple designed for ordinance work itself should be built.

In this setting, the doctrinal foundation having been laid, and with the Spirit of the Lord resting mightily upon them, the barrier between heaven and earth was opened. “I beheld the celestial kingdom of God, and the glory thereof,” the Prophet said. He described its beauty, including “the blazing throne of God, whereon was seated the Father and the Son.” He saw Adam and Abraham and his father and mother in that holy realm, showing that the vision was one of things to come, because his father and mother were yet in mortality and his father was then present in the same room.

“I saw … my brother, Alvin, who has long since slept: And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins.” From this, it is clear that whatever the scriptures said about the promises made to the fathers, about all the seed of Abraham having the right to special blessings, and about the preaching of the gospel in the spirit world, the Prophet had not yet envisioned the soul-expanding concept of salvation for the dead.

In this setting, the answer was given and the gospel spread forth its light to embrace the living and the dead. “Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying—All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.” (History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2:380.)

Every member of the Church should ponder upon and memorize these words. They contain the Lord’s promise that all those who would have received the gospel in this life “with all their hearts,” had the opportunity been afforded, will receive it in the spirit world and be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God.

Following this, the Prophet received the comforting assurance “that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability, are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven.” (History of the Church, 2:381; see 2:382–89.)

8. Elias and Elijah came to put in operation the doctrine of salvation for the dead. Less than two and a half months after the Prophet’s vision of the celestial kingdom, the Lord sent first Elias and then Elijah so that the laws relative to salvation for the dead could be put into full operation. The time was April 3, 1836. The place was the Kirtland Temple. The recipients of the powers and blessings were Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery.

“Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed, all generations after us should be blessed.” (D&C 110:12.)

Thus Elias brought back the great commission given to Abraham—called in the revelation “the gospel of Abraham”—which gospel or commission was that in Abraham and in his seed, all generations would be blessed; which commission was that all the seed of Abraham had the right to the continuation of the family unit in eternity and to eternal increase, which is part of eternal life. Such, as we have seen, was the promise made to the fathers.

After Elias comes Elijah. With the promise revealed, it now must be planted in the hearts of the seed of Abraham. And so the record says, “After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said: Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord comes—To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to their fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.” (D&C 110:13–16.)

Thus Elijah conferred upon men the sealing power, the power by which the promises made to the fathers could work in the lives of men. As set forth by Joseph Smith in his great discourse on “Elias, Elijah, Messiah,” Elijah came to enable us to perform all the ordinances of the gospel for the living, first, and for the dead, second. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 335–41.)

We are married in the temple—and so receive the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as promised by Elias—because of the sealing power restored by Elijah. Once we have received these blessings for ourselves and our posterity, we seek to make them available to our ancestors who died without a knowledge of the gospel and who would have received them with all their hearts had they lived when such blessings were available to them. The divine decree is: Save thyself and thy kindred.

9. Joseph Smith and his successors have guided the Saints where salvation for the dead is concerned. From the prophet’s day to now, line upon line and precept upon precept, solving each newly arising problem by the spirit of inspiration, the various presidents of the Church have guided the Lord’s people in this great work of salvation for the dead. We have many sermons from Joseph Smith, and we have his two epistles, sections 127 and 128 of the Doctrine and Covenants [D&C 127, 128]. We have the decisions of President Wilford Woodruff and others as to how and to whom children should be sealed. We have the great genealogical system of the Church to help in the necessary research. We have family organizations everywhere, and the work is going forward.

10. President Joseph F. Smith’s vision of the redemption of the dead expands our understanding of salvation for the dead. Among other things, this modern-day vision reveals the following:

First: It is a complete and comprehensive confirmation of the established doctrine of the Church where salvation for the dead is concerned.

Second: President Smith “saw the hosts of the dead”—all those who had died during 4,000 years of earth’s turmoils. Among them was “an innumerable company of the spirits of the just, who had been faithful in the testimony of Jesus while they lived in mortality.” And it was to these that the Spirit Lord ministered, proclaiming again to their listening ears the great plan of redemption.

Third: Among the wicked and ungodly, our Lord did not go in person, and among them his voice was not raised. “But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men. And thus was the gospel preached to the dead.”

Fourth: It is clearly set forth that the whole spirit world, and not only that portion designated as hell, is considered to be a spirit prison. When Jesus came to them he declared “liberty to the captives who had been faithful,” for they “had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage.”

Fifth: “The faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead.”

Thus, faithful members of the kingdom of God on earth, while they are yet mortal, search out their dead ancestors and perform the ordinances of salvation and exaltation for them in the holy sanctuaries set apart for these purposes. Then, upon departing this life, those same faithful souls seek out and teach to their ancestors the saving truths of the everlasting gospel. And thus does the gospel continue to be preached among the dead. (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, Deseret Book Co., 1939, pp. 472–76.)

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11. There is more revelation to come relative to salvation for the dead and all other things. The last word has not been spoken on any subject. Streams of living water shall yet flow from the Eternal Spring who is the source of all truth. There are more things we do not know about the doctrines of salvation than there are things we do know.

When we as a people believe and conform to all of the truths we have received, we shall receive more of the mind and will and voice of the Lord. What we receive and when it comes are in large measure up to us. The Lord has many things he wants to tell us, but so far we have not attained that unity and spiritual stature which will enable us to pull down knowledge from heaven upon us.

We praise God because he has seen fit to give to us what we have received including these two revelations on salvation for the dead, and pray that we may believe and obey with that faith and devotion which will cause the Lord to give us more of his eternal word. The more we know, the more scripture we receive, the more we have in our standard works, the greater is our chance of gaining eternal life in our Father’s kingdom. We can never live a law until it is revealed to us. Can any of us know too much? Can we receive too much revelation? Can we add too much to our holy writ?

What a wondrous thing it is to worship a God who still speaks, whose voice is still heard, whose words are without end!



TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; baptism; lds; mormon
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1 posted on 02/19/2009 7:51:23 AM PST by greyfoxx39
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To: colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; ...

Ping.


2 posted on 02/19/2009 7:53:31 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Google "Illinois' history of insatiable greed" for insight into what is coming our way.)
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To: greyfoxx39

That Joey Smith and his puffed up braggin’ and his occult stuff and sealing thingy reminds me of Puff the Magic Dragon...

Puff, the Magic Dragon lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called honah lee,
Little Jackie Paper loved that rascal Puff,
And brought him strings and SEALING WAX and other fancy stuff.


3 posted on 02/19/2009 8:14:53 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: greyfoxx39
All are alike into God where the outpouring of his gifts is concerned. And whatever any elder says when moved upon by the Holy Ghost is scripture. It is the will and mind and word and voice of the Lord. (D&C 68:1–4.)

Just..... wow.....

4 posted on 02/19/2009 8:16:42 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
All are alike into God where the outpouring of his gifts is concerned. And whatever any elder says when moved upon by the Holy Ghost is scripture. It is the will and mind and word and voice of the Lord. (D&C 68:1–4.)

I can think of a couple of "elders" here that believe that what they say is "the will and mind and word and voice of the Lord."...can't you? ;)

5 posted on 02/19/2009 8:27:37 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Google "Illinois' history of insatiable greed" for insight into what is coming our way.)
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To: greyfoxx39
A fraudulent and counterfeit gospel at best. When exposed to the light of God's Word there's nothing there.

“As found in the book of Abraham, Jehovah’s promise to his friend Abraham included this assurance: “I give unto thee a promise that this right”—the right to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood—“shall continue” forever. That great patriarch was also promised, “In thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.” (Abr. 2:11.)”

The Book of Abraham has over and over again been shown to be a fraud and hence what is based on it is fraud.

And by posting this you expose it. Thanks.

6 posted on 02/19/2009 8:46:54 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom
God ordained “editing on the fly”...

That is why computers and desktop publishing were created by the Almighty, makes it easy to spread the Good(new and revised this week)News...

7 posted on 02/19/2009 8:48:01 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: greyfoxx39

8 posted on 02/19/2009 9:24:55 AM PST by Godzilla (Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: count-your-change
agreed. I often pray for those trapped in the LDS church, those who know not the TRUE joy of a relationship with Christ, not a religious “to do” list.

Its funny how the LDS use McConkie for many things but when those outside the LDS church use him, we are told its “not official doctrine”. Another example of “lay theology” at work apparently.

10 posted on 02/19/2009 4:29:39 PM PST by reaganaut ( ex-mormon, now Christian. "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: greyfoxx39
Some modern Christians may not realize the "orthodox" origens and meanings of the 12 oxen with the baptismal font on their backs. It was a common motiff in historical Christianity and art. it is based on the biblical passage in Kings. As a restorationist Church IMO, it is nice the LDS have brought the beauty and symbolism of the old Christian art back.

AD IMAGINEM DEI Thoughts on the history of art, from a Catholic viewpoint

“The sea was then cast; it was made with a circular rim, and measured ten cubits across, five in height, and thirty in circumference. Under the brim, gourds encircled it, ten to the cubit all the way around; the gourds were in two rows and were cast in one mold with the sea. This rested on twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east, with their haunches all toward the center, where the sea was set upon them. It was a handbreadth thick, and its brim resembled that of a cup, being lily-shaped. Its capacity was two thousand measures.” I Kings 7:23-26

11 posted on 02/19/2009 4:30:10 PM PST by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: Rameumptom

Bring it back for a select few, those who are deemed “worthy” you mean?

Adopting “orthodox” Christian art, wording, and symbolism does not make a church Christian.


12 posted on 02/19/2009 6:27:44 PM PST by reaganaut ( ex-mormon, now Christian. "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut; Godzilla; Colofornian; Elsie; colorcountry; AmericanArchConservative; ...
Mormon FReepers are quick to "credit" Christianity for all kinds of things, polygamy, baptism of the dead, multiple gods, and on and on....and the claims of such have been debunked on threads here again, and again.
13 posted on 02/20/2009 5:59:33 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Google "Illinois' history of insatiable greed" for insight into what is coming our way.)
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To: greyfoxx39

I guess they want Christianity to conform to Mormonism instead of the reverse.


14 posted on 02/20/2009 6:39:11 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
I guess they want Christianity to conform to Mormonism instead of the reverse.

Exactly! Why not? They are absolutely CONVINCED that God removed HIS gospel from the earth and chose to trust the RESTORATION of it to an ignorant 14-year-old farm boy who grew to be one of the most successful charlatans in history.

Too bad God didn't have any better judgement than that!

15 posted on 02/20/2009 7:28:32 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Google "Illinois' history of insatiable greed" for insight into what is coming our way.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Consider this statement from the posted article:

“From the days of the first dispensation it has been the practice of the Lord’s people to make selections from the scriptural utterances of those who are appointed to lead the Church and to publish these selections as formal and official scripture. All inspired sayings and writings are true and are and should be accepted and believed by all who call themselves Saints. But the revelations, visions, prophecies, and narrations selected and published for official use are thereby made binding upon the people in a particular and special sense. They become part of the standard works of the Church. They become the standards, the measuring rods, by which doctrine and procedure are determined.”

This statement has enormous implications for the Mormon faithful.

“....make selections from the scriptural utterances of those who are appointed to lead the Church and to publish these selections as formal and official scripture.”

From what the leaders utter “formal and official scripture” can be selected. Can such “scripture” be false or contradictory?

” All inspired sayings and writings are true and are and should be accepted and believed by all who call themselves Saints”

I suppose the “inspired sayings and writings” would be the comments by trusted leaders, though evidently these “inspired sayings and writings” don't rise to the level of scripture. But while these should be “accepted and believed” since the leader wasn't acting a prophet it can't be called “official teachings”.

But the sayings, prophecies, revelations, visions, narratives, that are selected are elevated to same level as the Bible, BoM, etc., i.e., Holy Writ.

No matter how unbiblical a doctrine is, once it has been selected for inclusion in “the standard works” it must be defended as truth. Even complete frauds like The Book of Abraham.

One can look at it and hear all the outlandish defenses of it but since it is part of “the standard works” it must be defended as a matter faith.

The only alternative to this spiritual contortion would be to remove this fraudulent work and that is unthinkable.

16 posted on 02/20/2009 8:55:41 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: greyfoxx39; Tennessee Nana; count-your-change; ejonesie22; Godzilla; reaganaut; Rameumptom; All
Notice this hypocrisy from the LDS prophet, Joseph F. Smith (who isn't Joseph Smith the original charlatan).

(BTW, stick with this post to the end...because I have a unique dialogue you haven't seen anywhere...)

(1) First, JF Smith accuses Joe Smith, Jr. of "...not yet envision[ing] the soul-expanding concept of salvation for the dead":

From this, it is clear that whatever the scriptures said about the promises made to the fathers, about all the seed of Abraham having the right to special blessings, and about the preaching of the gospel in the spirit world, the Prophet had not yet envisioned the soul-expanding concept of salvation for the dead.

Immediately JF Smith launches into a dream he has and writes: In this setting, the answer was given and the gospel spread forth its light to embrace the living and the dead. “Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying—All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.”

(2) So, did you all catch that last line? The major thrust here, according to JF Smith, is that God will "...judge all men according to their works." But the bigger context of JF Smith's dream was the gospel being preached to these folks post-death. Does anyone see the open disconnect there?

If not, here it is: If the Mormon god puts a heavier emphasis on judging men according to their works as the basis of what post-death kingdom they wind up in...then please explain what difference it's going to make to...
...do billions of hours of genealogical research...
...do millions of ritualistic proxy baptisms...
...do millions of post-death ritualistic sealings...
...because, after all, what good works are these spirits going to perform in the netherworld even if they are receptive to the post-death Mormon gospel???

The true order of it all was revealed by the writer of the book of Hebrews: "It is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgment." (Heb. 9:27)

Mormons would have you believe that Christians took a knife and excised much out of Heb. 9:27. Their version of an expanded Heb. 9:27 would read something like this:

Heb. 9:27(a): It is appointed for man to die once, and then wait in the big netherworld waiting room zillions of times worse than your worst doc's office, 'cause after all, the records process of this whole thing is even worse than your worst doctor-office nightmare...

Commentary: Why? Because those Mormon missionary "physician attendants" on the other side are held up by lack of accurate records among humanity, especially for the bulk of humanity whoever lived up until the first 16 centuries post-Christ. And even for those who lived between the 17th and 21st centuries, you have to await for people scrounging around tombstones for records confirmation, and then await a paper bureaucracy trail worst than Washington D.C. just to get the proxy baptism approved -- minus duplication.

Additional commentary: ...then, when or if the records are even located and properly processed past the bureaucratic snafus on the blue-earth side of things, a Mormon-spirit missionary has to be found -- someone who's been primed all his life that "families are forever" and yet is now being told he needs to leave that family, again, to go to some spirit who most likely rejected his doorbell rings in the previous life...

Heb. 9:27(b): ...then, when the Mormon gospel is presented to this netherworld spirit, he can either receive it or reject it...

Heb. 9:27(c) ...if he rejects it, he's gonna in all likelihood be "saved" and "resurrected" anyway, thus saith the Mormon "gospel"...

Commentary: ...he'll just be kept out of the elite Kolobian Heights star neighborhood...and as long as he wasn't a liar, adulterer, sorcerer or whoremonger and the like, he'll avoid the 1,000-year jail sentence in hell...thus, when LDS spirit-world missionaries zoom on by Telestialville and see all these resurrected, saved souls who rejected the Mormon gospel on both sides of the divide, they think, "Why did we bother with all the missionary ventures & geneology & temple rituals & spirit-side gospel presentations again?"

Heb. 9:27(d): ...some netherworld spirits receive the Mormon gospel...

Commentary...if this netherworld spirit receives the Mormon gospel, it dons on him that it's not really going to make much of a spiritual real estate difference, anyway, because, he's told, he's about to be judged on something he can't do anything about -- the works he did or didn't do while he was in the body...which brings me to the question that if the heart of the Mormon gospel is doing good works after receiving it, then why offer it to somebody who can't really do those good works given he's now minus a body?

Heb. 9:27(e): ...then he finally is brought before God the judge, who proceeds to judge him on his sins of commission in the body, sins of omission while he was in the body...

Commentary: "But you don't understand Mormon afterlife theology, C! Don't you see! At least by receiving the-Mormon-gospel-in-the-afterlife-based-upon-his-proxy-baptism-in-this-life-he-can-get-bumped-up-from-telestialville-to-terrestialville!"

And my response to that? "You're telling me that because of what a spirit does in the afterlife --
-- receive by 100% faith what a substitute has done for you by proxy --
--and believe in that act 100% --
--you receive a higher degree of heavenly glory, right?"
"Right"
"And you're telling me that these spirits receiving this Mormon gospel won't be able to do any good works because they won't have yet have their resurrected body, right?"
"Right."
"Boy, this kind of sounds a bit like the Christian gospel right now.
--"You receive by faith what somebody (Jesus Christ) did on your behalf-by-proxy.
--"You trust in this act on the cross -- 100% complete faith.
--"And, whatever good works you do after receiving this act done on your behalf still gets you the same real estate in the afterlife
--"'cause it was the act of receiving the gospel and believing in what Christ did for you that opened that particular door to heaven."
"Oh."
"Yeah, Oh."

17 posted on 02/20/2009 9:38:24 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Immediately JF Smith launches into A DREAM HE HAS and writes: In this setting, the answer was given and the gospel spread forth its light to embrace the living and the dead. “Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying—All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.”
_____________________________________________________

And yet the mormons claim to be following the Bible ..


18 posted on 02/20/2009 10:23:24 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian
--"'cause it was the act of receiving the gospel and believing in what Christ did for you that opened that particular door to heaven."

Photobucket

19 posted on 02/20/2009 12:13:11 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Google "Illinois' history of insatiable greed" for insight into what is coming our way.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Based on deliberation and forethought, knowing full well the import and effect of the proposition then before them, fifteen men raised their hands to the square as those whom the Church sustains as prophets, seers, and revelators each certified his personal concurrence to the momentous motion then before them.

GOOGLE® yourself!

"hands to the square" + mormon + mason


Will it STAY this time or be REMOVED as @ #9??

20 posted on 02/20/2009 8:20:57 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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