Posted on 12/16/2008 6:47:29 AM PST by NYer
The Charismatic movement within the Catholic church is why I remain a Catholic today. And no - I don’t believe they are a bunch of “nuts”.
As far as an all nighter. The Catholic Charismatic church in Houston has a First Friday all night service - with praise and worship - albeit a loud music filled one. Rosary, Stations of the Cross services are interposed within it.
As far as a more subtle service with the Adoration, Rosary, Gregorian chants, etc, I’ve seen those types of services within religious communities. I think it’s a wonderful idea - but as you’ve learned, not an easy one to put forth, plan, implement and ensure participation. Have you tried Caritas in Birmingham? That might be an option where the community would be open to implementing that - especially with their TV audience (ala EWTN).
One last thing, to some of the individuals who’ve posted replys on religious topics, I get really saddened when I read such snickering comments. If this is truly a Christian forum - then please write in kind.
Thanks.
A 40 hour devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Immaculate Heart of Mary, has been held in the Albany diocese for many years. It includes processions, novenas, stations of the cross, confession, etc. and culminates with Mass at 3am. 4 years ago, they contacted my pastor and asked if he would make the sacrifice. He agreed. And a sacrifice it was. He never told them that his mother and brother were arriving from Lebanon. On that Friday, he drove 3 1/2 hrs to NYC, waited for their delayed flight, drove another 3 1/2 hours back to the residence. Once he had his family settled, he fought off sleep in order to say the 3am Mass. It was absolutely beautiful!
tevens,
Where is you spiritual discernment?
How do you know what you’re experiencing is truly from God?
If all you are seeking is an ecstatic experience, doesn’t that make you vaulable to attacks from the Evil One? Especially if you have no discernment?
Does your experiences lead you into interior recollection, humility or unworthiness?
Does your experiences generate a sense of pride, independence or vanity?
Do you think less of those who don’t have ecstatic experiences?
Does you ecstatic experiences ever contradict the Magisterium?
What happens when you don’t have an ecstatic experience during worship?
Or do you always have an ecstatic experience?
If you always have an ecstatic experience, do you ever wonder why God favours you each and every time?
Remember - vigilate et orate ut non intretis in temptationem, “Watch and pray that you do not enter into temptation” Matt 14:38
5. Because of Rev. Dale's legal situation, will children under 18 be able to attend?
Rev. Dale has carefully adhered to the current requirement of the Justice Court of having no contact with individuals less than 18 years of age. The justice of the peace has allowed him to attend church and to visit other public places where children may be present.
MMmm. Ohhh,key.
Video of part of the worsip service at the Life Teen Center...
Great music...Good to see young people praising and worshipping God...
Video at the bottom of the page...
http://stjohnsvaldosta.blogspot.com/2007/11/life-teen-founder-starts-his-own-church.html
Two things:
1) He was *accused* of sexual crimes; he was not found guilty. Anyone can be *accused* of sexual crimes. My uncle was *accused* of a sexual crime, but he was found innocent; the person accusing him was a liar. I hate these sexual crime accusations — you’re ALWAYS assumed to be guilty.
2) Thank God for His Reformation of His Church.
Seemed fine to me: Young people engaging with God in a way that’s relevant to them. Older people can start thinking that the only way to engage with God is the way that *they* engage(d) with HIm, and forget that God is beyond any one particular culture or sub-culture.
Where is you spiritual discernment?
I is Diocese of Charlotte, NC. Where is yous?
No, but seriesly, my "spiritual discernment" is in the presence of the Holy Spirit, in the Bible, in the Magisterium and the writings of solid teachers, in the guidance (if necessary) of my pastor and my Bishop.
How do you know what you’re experiencing is truly from God?
I don't always. It might be simply psychological excitement, physical disturbance, or a combination of those factors with a genuine experience of the Holy Spirit. If it produces good fruit, such as forgiveness, repentance, or service, that's an indication of a good inspiration. This is true, of course, of ideas, inspirations, or experiences in any form of prayer.
If all you are seeking is an ecstatic experience, ...
It's not, so I'll write off the rest of this line. doesn’t that make you vaulable to attacks from the Evil One? Especially if you have no discernment?
Does your experiences lead you into interior recollection, humility or unworthiness?
Sometimes they does, and sometimes they disn't. I have my most powerful experiences of recollection, humility, and unworthiness when I'm caring for a newborn baby.
Does your experiences generate a sense of pride, independence or vanity?
Do you think less of those who don’t have ecstatic experiences?
Does you ecstatic experiences ever contradict the Magisterium?
No, no, and no.
What happens when you don’t have an ecstatic experience during worship? (and further questions of same type.)
I have a non-ecstatic experience during worship. God is present in overwhelming power and majesty in the Mass whether I have any notable "experiences" at all, or when my experience is singing the "Amen" in a totally wrong key. Mass isn't about me.
As far as I know, I've never had what I'd consider an "ecstatic experience," although maybe I did during the posterior breech delivery without anesthesia (baby #6, the alien). I can't remember most of an hour.
What was your point, anyway?
When will that take place?
“It is truly ecumenical and multi-denominational.”
Code words for wishy-washy Protestants in today’s world.
If I remember correctly, I think that Bishop Olmsted (just after having arrived) had to do something when the lawsuits were coming out, sort of put Fr. Fushek on "leave of absence" from St. Timothy's parish, however, I think Fr. Fushek officially resigned as pastor from the parish on his own several weeks later. Then he later "resigned" from the Church (diocese) on his own as he started doing the Praise and Worship Center thingy. At least that was his justification for being able to do it and remain Catholic. He has always been a "charismatic" type priest in both senses of the word and many people "follow" him and hang on his every word when he preaches. Fortunately, his preaching has always been sound Catholic doctrine (big on Pope JP II, pro life, the proper sexual ethics of the Church, etc.), though the liturgical actions of the parish were of the horrid kind found throughout the Church over the past 40 or so years. Life Teen says it all.
This has been ongoing for several years now and you can see the problem with it - and the reason Bishop Olmsted had to act. A priest cannot just "resign" his vows (notably obedience) in the priesthood. Even if properly laicized, a priest is still subject to the laws of the Church and particularly those laws that deal with laicized priests (they are no longer allowed to officially preach, or teach in seminaries, etc.) Nothing happens quickly from a legal standpoint in the Church and I'm sure there is nothing sudden about the final act of excommunication coming from the bishop.
Prayers for these two Priests, that they return back to full unity in the Church.
Regarding the lawsuits (this whole situation is weird), I would note to everybody that all counts are misdemeanors. I have not heard anything about Fr. Fushek having sex with underage or legal age persons. Because of his high profile in the Diocese of Phoenix for about 15-20 or so years, if there were any acts of this nature, it would have come out years ago. I am not defending him here, nor implying that I don't believe that he has problems in the sexual arena, particularly homosexuality. There has been clear evidence over the past 4-6 years that he has acted improperly and that he needs help. The evidence suggests that he knows it as well, but also, that he has never strayed into that explicit territory of sinful acts.
You wrote:
“The Charismatic movement within the Catholic church is why I remain a Catholic today.”
I am truly glad you remain in the Catholic Church today.
But, you should stay in the Church because it IS TRUE not because of a particular movement in it.
I’m not trying to pick on you, but truth comes first doesn’t it?
I like the old Mass: reverent, beautiful, majestic. I know there are plenty of Anglican liturgies out there that would put the new Mass to shame. Even if the old Mass disappeared tomorrow, I would never leave the truth, the Catholic Church.
It would last from about 8:00 p.m., starting with outdoor music before the fire-lighting, until 3:00 or 4:00. (Official bathroom break at least once.) There was always a very good turnout, if not a full church. When the service finally ended, we'd eat and drink on the doorstep until time to set up for the Easter morning Mass. Cops would stop by for snacks.
I've never, in ... 2008-1993 ... 15 years as a Catholic been in another parish that did this. They always cut the readings, and I think that's just wrong.
Tax Chick
I sorry if you were offended by my questions to those attached to the charismatic movement.
These are not my arbitary musings.
These are the criteria used by The Church when investigating personal revelations and visions.
St. Theresa of Avila, a Doctor of The Church and a great mystic used these same criteria in her work, “Interior Castle”, especially The Sixth Mansion, Chapter IX, which the Saint entitled “THIS CHAPTER SPEAKS OF THE MANNER IN WHICH GOD COMMUNICATES WITH THE SOUL BY IMAGINARY VISIONS. STRONG REASONS ARE GIVEN FOR NOT DESIRING TO BE LED IN THIS WAY; THIS IS VERY PROFITABLE READING.”
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/tic/tic26.htm
I leave you with this passage from the above chapter,
“Many other advantages result; but as I have written elsewhere at length about the effect these visions produce, and must do so again later on, I will say no more now lest I weary us both.
But I most earnestly advise you, when you know or hear of God’s bestowing these graces on others, never to pray nor desire to be led by this way yourself though it may appear to you to be very good; indeed, it ought to be highly esteemed and reverenced, yet no one should seek to go by it for several reasons.
Firstly, as it is a want of humility to desire what you have never deserved, I do not think any one who longs for these graces can be really humble: a common labourer never dreams of wishing to be made a king—the thing seems impossible and he is unfit for it; a lowly mind has the same feeling about these divine favours.
I do not believe God will ever bestow these gifts on such a person, as before doing so He always gives thorough self-knowledge.
How can that soul, while filled with such lofty aspirations, realize the truth that He has shown it great mercy in not casting it into hell?
The second reason is that such a one is certain to be deceived or at least is in great danger of delusion, for an entrance is thus left open to the devil, who only needs to see the door left ajar to slip in at once and play us a thousand tricks.
Thirdly: when people strongly desire a thing, the imagination makes them fancy they see or hear it, just as when a man’s mind is set upon a subject all day he dreams of it at night.”
I think you have a very confused idea about the Charismatic Renewal. The Pope doesn’t have any problems with it, as a Church-wide phenomenon (yes, there are some flakes, just as there are some “traditionalist” flakes), or he wouldn’t still employ Father Cantalamessa as his household preacher.
Some people pray in Italian, some people pray in tongues. What’s the big deal? In my observation, a lot of what’s presented as high-concept, deeply-spiritual anxiety about Charismatics is just class prejudice.
Now, I answered all your questions, according to my own experience of Charismatic prayer. I don’t understand why you’re still raising the same points as your original post, just as if the questions had not been answered. If you’re looking for someone with pretensions to being Teresa of Avila or starting a personal cult, you’re in the wrong place.
This excommunication is a good start.
In addition, I’ve read that Mother Angelica has participated in the Charismatic movement in the Church, although she was skeptical at first. While she is not infallible, she’s a darn good measurement of orthodoxy.
While I am not partial to it, anything that’s ok with B16 is okay with me!
I believe Father Scanlan or Father DeGrandis introduced Mother Angelica and her sisters to the Charismatic Renewal. I remember that part of Raymond Arroyo’s biography because it mentioned that the lasting fruit of their experience with charismatic prayer was a greater appreciation for and emphasis on Scripture in their community.
That has also been my experience. Since I moved from Tulsa and left my prayer group behind, I’ve prayed in tongues only occasionally, but reading and studying and memorizing Scripture is a constant.
In all honesty, I don’t have a problem with Life Teen at our church. Our Life Teen meets on Wed. nights and there is usually a very good topic that is appropriate for teens. Pornography, drugs, sex, forgiveness, relationship to Jesus, Mary, etc. I’ve been on the Core for 3 years and I’ve seen many teens turn from very destructive habits and graduate to go on to college, strong in their faith.
What I have a problem with is the Life Teen Mass. Very disrespectful. Loud, laughing, talking and that is from the youth minister!!! Before Mass, our youth minister goes to the Altar and is like a cheer leader. The Mass is watered down to ‘reach’ the teens... For years during the Lord’s Prayer, the teens would circle the Altar and fidget, laugh, talk, and goof off. Finally our Priest said no more and at least for now, they no longer circle the Altar.
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