Melchizedek Priesthood Study GuidePosted on 12/17/2007 12:33:31 PM PST by Gamecock
Apologist James White continues answering the question “Are Mormons another kind of Christians?” using LDS Sources:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints provides a tremendous amount of literature to its people. This body of printed material can hardly be surveyed here. However, we can focus upon those publications that are specifically meant to communicate doctrinal truth to the members of the Mormon Church. Since the vast majority of this material appears in Church published documents, we feel quite confident that we are being fair in allowing it to speak and bear testimony to the LDS position.
Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide
The Melchizedek Priesthood, or the Holy Priesthood after the Order of the Son of God, as some Mormons refer to it, is central to the LDS concept of authority. The Church has published a book titled Search These Commandments, which is subtitled, “Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide.”[1] On pages 151 through 158 we have a study, Lesson 21, based upon D&C 132:20. The first section of the lesson is titled, “God Was Once a Man As We Are Now.” The topic of Lorenzo Snow is brought up in these words:
When he was a young man, Lorenzo Snow was promised by the Lord through the Patriarch to the Church that through obedience to the gospel he could become as great as God, and you cannot wish to be greater (Eliza R. Snow Smith, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow, pp.9-10).
President Lorenzo Snow recorded this experience that occurred when he was still a young elder: “The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon methe eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man.” Elder Snow expressed this new found understanding in these words: “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” Later the Prophet Joseph Smith assured him: “Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you” (quoted by LeRoi C. Snow, in Devotion to Divine Inspiration, Improvement Era, June 1919, pp. 651-56).
I believe the significance of this is clear: the Church has no qualms about promoting Snow’s couplet in modern times, and even citing a very secondary source regarding Joseph Smith’s confirmation of the verity of Snow’s ideas. Not surprisingly, then, the very next citation is very familiar to us:
The Prophet Joseph Smith said:
It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth” (Teachings, pp. 345-46; italics in original).
The continued relevance, and authority, of Smith’s teaching is here plainly demonstrated. So, too, is the authority of a General Authority speaking in Conference, as the next citation provided shows:
President Brigham Young elaborated on this concept: “It must be that God knows something about temporal things, and has had a body and been on an earth; were it not so He would not know how to judge men righteously, according to the temptations and sins they have had to contend with” (as cited by Harold B. Lee, in Conference Report, Apr. 1969, p.130; or Improvement Era, June 1969, p.104).
Are modern Mormons taught that God was once a man and progressed to godhood? Most definitely. The second section of this lesson is titled, “Our Father Advanced and Progressed Until He Became God.” What sources are provided to the Melchizedek priest to substantiate this claim?
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
President Joseph F. Smith taught: I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions. . . . Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman (Church News, 19 Sept.1936, p.2).
President Wilford Woodruff explained: [God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children. . . . We are here to fill a probation and receive an education (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p.546).
Aside from demonstrating how deeply embedded in LDS thought is the idea of eternal progression, the use of all of these non-canonical sources by the Church to its own members should be noted. The Church is not merely providing private speculation from these leaders to her members. By citing these sources the Church is demonstrating that her truth can be found in a wider body of literature than just the Standard Works.
Next we find that the Church specifically says that the mortal life of God the Father, prior to His exaltation, was basically the same as our life today:
How does it help us to know that the basic elements of God’s life in a mortal world were the same as ours? President Brigham Young explained:
He is our Father–the Father of our spirits–and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are.. . . There never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through. . . .
It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being (Deseret News, 16 Nov. 1859, p.290).
The next section is titled “Through Obedience to the Gospel, Man May Become like God.” To illustrate this, they quote from a devotional speech in which Elder S. Dilworth Young attributes words to the Father in heaven as He revealed His plan to us in our premortal home.
My children all: You see in me
Exalted man, of flesh and bone
And spirit pure. One time, long
Long ago, I was as you, a spirit son
Of an exalted Father. [see HC 6:302-17]
You may become as now I have become
But you must do as I have done.
Take special notice that the Father’s Father is here mentioned. That is, the God of God, the God that the heavenly Father worshipped when He was a man, is here affirmed to exist. Some modern LDS refuse to speculate beyond what pertains to this earth, but the Church, in teaching its own people, is willing to discuss such matters. The centrality of Smith’s King Follett Discourse is seen again: the reference, HC 6:302-17, is to the History of the Church by Joseph Smith, and the King Follett sermon is found in volume 6, pages 302 and following. The lesson returns to the idea that God’s mortal existence was very much like ours by quoting an LDS Prophet:
President Joseph F. Smith said: We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal (Gospel Doctrine, p.64).
Following these quotes, the student is asked some questions. Some include, “What can a child grow up to be?” which is immediately followed by “What can a son of God grow up to be?” There is only one answer: a God. The student is then told that God does not jealously guard his position and power.[2] The King Follett discourse is cited again, this time the section that says you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you.
After some more discussion the lesson concludes with a most interesting note: “Be careful in presenting this material that you dont bring God down to man’s level. Our objective is to perfect ourselves and raise our level to his exalted place.”
Here is the LDS Church teaching her own members her theology, and in so doing, being quite open about the ramifications of believing that God was once a man. And even here, one hundred and forty years after Joseph Smith stood to deliver his sermon at Conference on the character of God, the emphasis remains upon the exaltation of man to the position of the divine. It doesn’t seem much has changed.
—————————————————–
[1] Search These Commandments, (Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1984). It carries the copyright of the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
[2] Compare, however, Isaiah 48:11.
I went to the OFFICIAL LDS site and they forbid posting material from their site onto other web sites, such as FR.
Care to tell us where Dr White is wrong?
Boy that's an original question. (/sarc)
I think I may have asked that question a thousand times myself and never liked the answer until I really got to understand (and respect) the Real Calvinist perspective.
I guess he's never visited the old Cal/Arm battlegrounds.
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Galatians 1:7-10
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert (restore?) the gospel of Christ. 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.
If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.
Be warned though, that this same Bible indicates that no matter how fervently you believe in Something; that does not make it True.
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I think more correctly would be that you must change your MIND!
Your MIND; the thing that has convinced you that one direction was 'right', now admits that it wasn't and turns, and goes a different way.
KJV Philippians 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Gee!
THANKS!
And, since we DON'T 'believe like you', that would make you NOT a Christian; right?
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
Something like that!
--MormonDude( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMJvqBq_Qa8 )
Since WHEN??
You DO have a VERY short attention span!
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Are FReepers “media personnel?”
Let's ask an attorney.
As always, very informative! It is quite simply demonstrable that Mormonism diverges from historical, Biblical Christianity in virtually every key theological area.
I’ve answered it for you. You don’t like the answer.
+++++++++++++++++++
I rember a returned question.
Please tru again,
+++++++++++++++++
As I read the different web sites from the different ‘reformed’ movements, I see very little mention that God is guiding the return to the ‘original’ understanding of the Bible.
How do you get confirmation from God that your reformation is correct, other then study and thinking it out in your mind?
Evin J. White says the Bible HAS BEEN TRANSLATED WRONG, and needs fixing.
Your MIND; the thing that has convinced you that one direction was ‘right’, now admits that it wasn’t and turns, and goes a different way.
KJV Philippians 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
+++++++++++++++++++++++
mind/ways
If you believe you are on the railroad track God built for you, how can you or I change our ways, without God doing it for us?
THANKS!
And, since we DON’T ‘believe like you’, that would make you NOT a Christian; right?
++++++++++++++++
Good misleading, twisted, half truth.
I’ve answered it for you. You don’t like the answer.
+++++++++++++++++++
I rember a returned question.
Please tru again,
BOY DO i NEED TO LEARN TO TYPE BETTER.
There isn't anything here that I can classify as "smear". I would suggest a closer look at the LDS online encyclopedia. I especially like this quote about the Godhead:
Perhaps it would be good to brush up on LDS doctrine and teaching before saying people are trying to smear the church simply for restating what the LDS church states.
I'm curious, where does one find this "established church teaching"? As far as I know, the Orthodox hold that both the Son and the Spirit proceed from the Father, while the Catholics--and, as far as I know, the Reformers--hold that the Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from both the Father and the Son (this disparity is, of course, the filioque controversy). I am unaware of a tradition that holds the view of the Godhead that you've proposed (and to be honest, it sounds a little odd to me, for then the Spirit might be called the Grandson!), but I would be grateful for any information you could provide.
Your “established church teaching” is a roman thing, not a Christian thing. It is a heresy.
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