Course examines taboo topic: Gays leading church

Contra Costa Times ^ | 9/9/6 | Rebecca Rosen Lum

[SmithL]

With the Presbyterian church re-examining its ban on the ordination of actively gay men and women, a five-week course on homosexuality and the Bible at a Danville congregation is drawing overflowing crowds.

"We want to provide a safe place for people to listen," said Roberta Hestenes, teaching pastor at Community Presbyterian Church. "The issue inspires so much controversy it deserves more than slogans, clichés and sound bites."

The course focuses only on the ordination of pastors, elders and deacons -- not on sexuality or the blessing of gay unions.

"At this moment in history, this issue is the sharp front edge," Hestenes said.

The issue has triggered deep divides in mainstream Christian denominations, including Methodist, Lutheran and Episcopalian faiths.

"The Bible, the Church, and Homosexuality: What's the Big Deal?" offers an overview of biblical texts and alternative interpretations, Hestenes said, along with points of dispute.

The course includes scrutiny of texts ranging from Genesis and the Pentateuch through the Gospels and Acts, the New Testament letters of Paul and Peter, ending with Revelations, which together comment on marriage, celibacy and service.

She expected up to 100 registrants. More than 130 signed up.

Although nationally, the church may grapple with the issue, Community Presbyterian tends to hold with church doctrine that says only celibate single people or those married to a member of the opposite sex may serve as clergy, said Hestenes, who is also adjunct faculty member at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena.

"This is not just the official Presbyterian view," she said. "It is the official view of the vast majority of Christian denominations from Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, historic Protestants, most independent Protestant and Pentecostals."

Even so, the church is open to gay participation.

"All persons of any orientation are welcomed as members," she said. "That's very important."

More than 70 percent of Presbyterians affirm the traditional perspective, Hestenes says her research shows.

"We are an evangelical church and we tend to be against (ordaining gays)," said adult education director Mike Miller. "There are many churches in the Bay Area who are very liberal and are for it. But we work together."

In June, the church's General Assembly voted to uphold its traditional standard, that candidates for ordination must be either married to a person of the opposite sex or be single and celibate.

"However, a candidate who does not meet these standards, whether heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual, may still be ordained due to a form of local option, if the ordaining body feels that they can make an exception," according to the assembly's Theological Task Force report.

That leaves local churches some latitude. It also rankled both gays and their advocates on one hand and traditional Presbyterians who condemn homosexuality on the other. The compromise measure is preferable to "the gut-wrenching horror of a schism in the denomination," the report says.

Above all, "We don't want to see the church in a bitter conflict," Hestenes said.

"For those of us who favor the ordination of gays and lesbians, it is by no means a victory, but it is not a complete defeat," said the Rev. Max Lynn of St. John's Presbyterian Church in Berkeley.

"There is a claim by the right that we are abandoning scripture," he said. "It's quite the opposite. We see in the ministry and life of Jesus someone who welcomed into service anyone who felt so called by the grace of God."

Others call for "clear boundaries." They include the Rev. Michael Carey of the Central Florida Presbytery, an online record of the meeting shows. And the Rev. David Miller of the Tampa Bay Presbytery called the measure allowing local presbyteries more latitude "a wrong turn."

On Sept. 12, the Bay Area Presbytery, which includes representatives of some 80 churches in San Francisco and the East Bay, will meet to tackle the question of gay ordination. They could adopt a standard of celibacy for unmarried candidates or have the committee on preparation for the ministry determine each candidate's qualifications.

Hestenes was decidedly upbeat after the first course session.

"We made it clear that everyone with any perspective was welcome," she said, adding that she would be thrilled if the course inspires other congregations. "We should all be studying, listening, praying -- trying to shed some light."

Rebecca Rosen Lum covers religion. Reach her at 925-977-8506 or rrosenlum@cctimes.com.

[SmithL]

ONLINE

• For details on the 2006 Presbyterian General Assembly, visit http://www.pcusa.org/generalassembly/

• For a list of gay-friendly Bay Area churches and synagogues, including Presbyterian More Light Congregations, visit http://clgs.org/5/open_arms.html

[SmithL]

"The Bible, the Church, and Homosexuality: What's the Big Deal?" offers an overview of biblical texts and alternative interpretations,

Oh boy! Alternative interpretations.

[Barnacle]

"The Bible, the Church, and Homosexuality: What's the Big Deal?" offers an overview of biblical texts and alternative interpretations...

Alternative interpretations of the Bible. Yeah! That's what we need.

Good grief.

[Barnacle]

Great tag line.

[Iscool]

"There is a claim by the right that we are abandoning scripture," he said. "It's quite the opposite. We see in the ministry and life of Jesus someone who welcomed into service anyone who felt so called by the grace of God."

Must be a different Jesus/Bible than the one I'm familiar with...

[weegee]

Mohammed's Islam in an "alternative interpretation" of the Judeo-Christian Bible too. It is still a religion of cultists.

[SmithL]

Thank you, it seemed appropriate for this thread.

[fwdude]

"We see in the ministry and life of Jesus someone who welcomed into service anyone who felt so called by the grace of God."

Utterly false.

Jesus was actually very exclusive in his messages in determining who would would be worthy (few) and who would be condemned (the vast majority.) His love is unconditional, but reasonable requirements must be met.

"Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

"Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me." John 13:8

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." John 3:19-21

[Uri’el-2012]

2 Timothy 4:1 I solemnly charge {you} in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus,
who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Timothy 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season {and} out of season;
reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine;
but {wanting} to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for
themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

2 Timothy 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth
and will turn aside to myths.

b'shem Yah'shua

[starfish923]

Above all, "We don't want to see the church in a bitter conflict," Hestenes said.

I think the horses are already out of the barn.
Too late to close the doors.

[NYer]

Ping!

[NYer]

Thank you for posting this thread. I stumbled across it at a different link earlier today and was planning to post it. Grateful you did it sooner.

"The Bible, the Church, and Homosexuality: What's the Big Deal?" offers an overview of biblical texts and alternative interpretations, Hestenes said, along with points of dispute.

Rev. Anita Cadonau-Huseby (left), owner and creator of christianlesbians.com, and her wife Dana.

ChristianLesbians.com

• Proclaims the Good News of Jesus and God's unconditional and abiding love for all people
• Offers information and resources for women presently struggling to reconcile their faith and sexuality
• Creates fellowship and support for Christian Lesbians, many of whom feel isolated by living in "the closet" or from having experienced rejection from family, friends and their own church community

---

The protestant churches, in separating themselves from the Magisterium, have shifted direction and are moving away from the tenets of christian faith. As a catholic, I wonder how much more it will take to bring faithful christians back home. Can someone please elaborate on this.

[Uri’el-2012]

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2 Thessalonians 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or
be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us,
to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for {it will not come}
unless the apostasy comes first, and the man
of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

b'shem Yah'shua

[reductio]

I wonder how much more it will take to bring faithful christians back home.

If they are faithful, what do they need to come home for? How can you have someone who is not home, and yet, be faithful?

Maybe they're just not home, and therefore, by definition, not faithful. Well gee willikers, imagine that.

[Nathan Zachary]

"With the Presbyterian church re-examining its ban on the ordination of actively gay men and women, a five-week course on homosexuality and the Bible at a Danville congregation is drawing overflowing crowds." The final nail in the Presbyterian coffin. Blastphemy of the Word.

[Nathan Zachary]

"However, a candidate who does not meet these standards, whether heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual, may still be ordained due to a form of local option, if the ordaining body feels that they can make an exception," according to the assembly's Theological Task Force report."

Not in God's eyes they can't be.

"How dare you say 'We are wise, and we possess the Law of God?' But look how it has been falsified by the lying pen of the scribes!". (Jer.8:8). "It is not those who say to me 'Lord, Lord', who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the person who does the will of my Father in heaven." (Mt.7:21).

[polymuser]

They probably just renamed the ELCA's "Journey Together Faithfully ELCA Studies on Sexuality: Part Two". It has everything needed to cast doubt in weak minds about what the Holy Bible plainly says about this perversity. I was hoping PCUSA was chainging course, but now...