Mary a Meeting Point of Cultures, Says Muslim - Encourages Pilgrimages to Marian Shrines

Zenit News Agency ^ | June 29, 2006

[NYer]

ROME, JUNE 29, 2006 (Zenit.org).- An Egyptian Muslim and deputy director of a prominent Italian newspaper suggested that Mary could be the figure who brings Christians and Muslims together.

Magdi Allam of Il Corriere della Sera spoke to ZENIT about the appeal he launched in the pages of the national daily newspaper to Muslims living in Italy to visit the Marian shrines in their host country.

The journalist said that he is convinced that the Virgin Mary is a meeting point between Christians and Muslims.

"Mary is a figure present in the Koran, which dedicates an entire sura [chapter ed.n.] to her and mentions her some thirty times. In Muslim countries there are Marian shrines that are the object of veneration and pilgrimage by Christian and Muslim faithful," he said.

"Therefore, I believe that if this happens in Muslim countries, why can't it happen in a Christian country, especially in a historical phase in which we need to define symbols, values and figures that unite religions, spiritualities and cultures?" he asked.

In Allam's opinion, "the Marian pilgrimage of Loreto -- Italy's National Shrine -- could represent a moment of meeting and spiritual gathering between Muslims and Catholics, around Mary, a religious figure that is venerated by both religions."

Vittorio Messori, author of book-interviews with Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI), also wrote in Il Corriere della Sera on June 15 in support of Allam.

He said that the dialogue between Christians and Muslims "can begin afresh from Mary."

[NYer]

Missionaries in the future will, more and more, see that their apostolate among the Muslims will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima. Mary is the advent of Christ, bringing Christ to the people before Christ himself is born. In an apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which people already accept. Because the Muslims have a devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and to develop that devotion, with the full realization that Our Blessed Lady will carry the Muslims the rest of the way to her divine Son. She is forever a "traitor," in the sense that she will not accept any devotion for herself, but will always bring anyone who is devoted to her to her divine Son. As those who lose devotion to her lose belief in the divinity of Christ, so those who intensify devotion to her gradually acquire that belief.

Mary and the Muslims

[nmh]

Leave it to Muslim to use "Mary" just another sinner as the common ground. Heck you can pray right along with Muslims to Mary. I won't be praying to Mary anytime soon.

[nmh]

"The journalist said that he is convinced that the Virgin Mary is a meeting point between Christians and Muslims."

Ahem, a meeting point between Catholics and Muslims.

[Sonny M]

Are the muslims going to ask christians to throw stones at her?

Does anyone here see the irony of the fact that if Islam had been around at the same time as Mary, they would have killed her?

[MJG]

Mary anytime soon.

Why not? You'll ask some schlep on FR or at your church to pray for you, why not the mother of your Lord Christ?

[rogator]

"Ahem, a meeting point between Catholics and Muslims."

Ahem, a meeting point between Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, many Protestant Christians, and Muslims.

[bonfire]

The meeting point is Jesus. Remember him??

[NYer]

Leave it to Muslim to use "Mary" just another sinner as the common ground.

Dear christian friend .... puhlease! ... Mary was immaculately conceived.

Mary's sinlessness is not for her own sake, but for Jesus' sake.  She had to be holy in order to be a worthy vessel for her utterly holy Son.  So this doctrine upholds the holiness and deity of Christ.

Since Jesus Himself preserved her, Mary's sinlessness depends completely upon Him.  He is the Savior of all humanity, Mary included.  By preserving her from all sin, Jesus shows us that He can indeed save "to the uttermost" (Hebrews 7:25).

[ladyinred]

I am sorry , but I find all of this appalling.

[NYer]

The meeting point is Jesus. Remember him??

The Muslims view Jesus as a prophet and nothing less. However, they hold a deep devotion to His mother. Mary's role in redemption is to lead ALL souls to her Son. Get the Muslims to see Mary's role and you've conquered their religious beliefs. It's really just that simple.

[NYer]

I am sorry , but I find all of this appalling.

How so? Mary's role in redemption is to lead ALL men to her Son. Click on the above link and read that article. Perhaps it will put things into perspective.

[FJ290]

"Mary is a figure present in the Koran, which dedicates an entire sura [chapter ed.n.] to her and mentions her some thirty times. In Muslim countries there are Marian shrines that are the object of veneration and pilgrimage by Christian and Muslim faithful," he said.

As a Catholic I fail to see how they are respectful to Mary when they disrespect her Son by saying He's not Divine, He's not the Son of God.

Is this how they honor and venerate Mary? The Women:

[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

This one from The Women really rankles me:

4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

How does that honor her? Denying that Jesus was crucified! She whose heart was pierced with sorrow as she watched her Son being crucified. I think they do a great disservice to Mary actually.

If they had any honor or respect for her, they would be following her Son.

[MJG]

I am sorry , but I find all of this appalling

It's appalling to you because you don't believe that God is infinite. You like many other Protestants believe that God chose Mary as Mother of the Word Incarnate, Christ claimed Mary as His mother (and stated as such), yet somehow in heaven she is relegated to some second class status, as if she was simply used and discarded like a disposable vessel.

That simply doesn't resolve.

Christ's word is infinite, on earth as it is in heaven. As it was in the beginning it is now - unchanging. Mother MEANS mother and God's kingdom is heaven AND earth. Although we can't see heaven, there is no distinction to the almighty - Mary is no less now than she ever was.

[rogator]

Sure do.
There are several meeting points between us and the Muslims.
Belief in God being the most basic.

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

Thankfully this exercise in wishful thinking is coming not from the Church but from laity whose credentials in matters of faith are completely unknown to us yet are presented as reasonable.

If ever approved at Church level, its garbage like this that leads to ecumenical fiascos like Assisi as heretics in local churches use these dialogs as excuses to bring an imam in to preach at a Catholic homily (oops, renamed "reflection", so no rules are broken), then Mohammed's statue is placed next to Mary's, etc, and we're all invited to the local mosque for services.

Keeping lines of communication is always important as is mutual respect, they too are made in God's image, and by all means work with them on pro-life issues at the UN, anything beyond natural law issues is Wilsonian or a Teilhard de Chardin-like fantasy.

The only level at which I see a practical value to our Church leaders meeting with other Church leaders is the Orthodox. All other Christians are too far from us to be negogiated with and papered over without us diluting the truth. These souls will be won over only by prayer, fasting, and our best example.

[blue-duncan]

"Mary's role in redemption is to lead ALL souls to her Son"

Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation. She is dead now and serves no useful purpose to those on earth except for her role historically as the mother of Jesus. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ as the scriptures tell us,

Jhn 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning."


Jhn 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come,
he will reprove the world of sin, and
of righteousness, and
of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you."

No where in scripture does it say Mary has any other role in redemption other than that of Jesus' mother. We all have as much a role in redemption as she did by witnessing to the saving power of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus as the all sufficient satisfaction for sin.

[rogator]

" Keeping lines of communication is always important as is mutual respect, they too are made in God's image,...."

It doesn't hurt to acknowledge that respect for or veneration of Mary is common to Muslims and most Christians.
I share your feelings regarding the Assisi fiasco and other such activities.
I do not see visiting the cathedral of St. Sophia in Constantinople (Istanbul)or the Alhambra as neccessarily a bad thing.

[rogator]

"Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation. She is dead now and serves no useful purpose to those on earth except for her role historically as the mother of Jesus."

I am sure glad we have you around to tell us the proper role of the Mother of God.

However, you might want to know that the vast majority of Christians living and dead might not agree with you.

[Pyro7480]

Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation. She is dead now and serves no useful purpose to those on earth except for her role historically as the mother of Jesus.

The book of Revelation is pretty clear about the saints being in Heaven.

[blue-duncan]

"Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation. She is dead now and serves no useful purpose to those on earth except for her role historically as the mother of Jesus."

"However, you might want to know that the vast majority of Christians living and dead might not agree with you."

Point out in the scriptures where the statement is wrong. The fact that spiritually the dead in Christ are alive with Him in heaven does not take away from the fact, no where in the scriptures does it say Mary has anything to do with redemption except historically as the mother of Jesus.

[rogator]

"Point out in the scriptures where the statement is wrong."

Point out in the scriptures where the statement is right.

The Church determined which writings were the word of God and which were not.
This same Church founded by Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, has venerated His mother for nearly 2000 years.
You would never even have seen the scriptures had not several monks (who by the way venerated the Mother of God) copied and recopied them for us.

[blue-duncan]

So you have no scripture backing up the statement that "Mary's role in redemption is to lead ALL souls to her Son".

I gave you the scriptures that state it is the job of the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ, convict of sin and lead sinners to Christ for salvation.

[rogator]

"Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation. She is dead now and serves no useful purpose to those on earth except for her role historically as the mother of Jesus."

This is YOUR statement which I was discussing.
Show me the proof for this statement either in scripture or in the historical traditions, beliefs, or practices of the Church.

[Iscool]

Why not? You'll ask some schlep on FR or at your church to pray for you, why not the mother of your Lord Christ?

Cuz she's dead...Dead people don't pray so good...Besides, it's againt my religion to try to communicate with the dead...

[annie laurie]

I am not Catholic, and one of the typical non-Catholic questions is always in reference to the immaculate conception of Mary.

I finally understood the Catholic point of view when reading this very nicely-done article:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

"Consider an analogy: Suppose a man falls into a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been "saved" from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. By receiving Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become mired in original sin and its stain.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that she was "redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Savior than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner!"

[Iscool]

Ahem, a meeting point between Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, many Protestant Christians, and Muslims.

I can't see where a born-again, Holy Spirit filled Christian would even consider having fellowship with a muzlim under any circumstances...And it's clear Paul the Apostle felt the same way...

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

My advice is to:

Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

I know a lot of you Catholics are saved...Don't fall for this deception...

[Iscool]

Mary's role in redemption is to lead ALL souls to her Son. Get the Muslims to see Mary's role and you've conquered their religious beliefs. It's really just that simple.

I can't imagine why they would believe that...It's certainly not biblical...

Just remember, at the same time, it's their goal to convert YOU to islam...

[blue-duncan]

These are just some of the scriptures that state the general principle that all have sinned, and Mary is included in all since there are no qualifiers, and in need of a savior.

Romans 3:10,"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

Romans 3:23, "23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"

Acts 4:10-12,"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Mary is physically dead now or should be.

1 Tim. 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

Heb. 4:14-16, "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

So let's see, we have access to grace through Jesus to whom we can come without a mediator since He Himself is our mediator between the Father and us; and we can come to him boldly to find grace to help in time of need. Now it stands to reason if you can come to the boss directly with your problems why would you want to go through any lesser created being? And since there is no scriptural basis for Mary's having anything to do with our redemption except historically being the mother of Jesus, why make up this superstition? What does it add to what Jesus has already accomplished for our salvation?

[reductio]

"The journalist said that he is convinced that the Virgin Mary is a meeting point between Christians and Muslims."

Ahem, a meeting point between Catholics and Muslims.

You might find this an interesting statement, being that it comes from a Catholic:

I agree with you in part. You correctly distinguish between what commonly passes for "Christian" and what is "Catholic" by definition, and that this definition of "Christian" which is commonly used is not "Catholic". All too often Catholics assume that they are a smaller circle, or group, encompassed within a larger circle or group of "Christians"

This is not at all the case, as you rightly discern. However, this is where you and I might disagree: the reason I say so in agreement with you is not the same as your reasons, because I, along with the perennial teachings of the Catholic Church, would say that Christianity IS Catholicism, and Catholicism IS Christianity.

Those, therefore, who refer to Catholics as "Catholic Christians" are not putting forth the true teaching of the Catholic Church, but are rather uttering a mere redundancy. It's an American thing, but it isn't Catholic.

[reductio]

This statement of NYer's, however, is the complete truth.

[mockingbyrd]

"Mary has any other role in redemption other than that of Jesus' mother"

That's a pretty big role!!!

I, as a Christian, believe in eternal life and believe that Mary, just as any true believer, is in Heaven worshiping her Son. I also belive, as did those at the wedding feast at Cana, that she can intercede for me as well as, if not better, any human on earth can.

God is all powerful and all merciful. He can bring any one to Him in anyway He chooses. The world first knew its Savior through His mother. It does not surprise me that once again, God chooses to bring people to Him through His mother again. Just as God works through those living on earth, so too does He work with those living in Heaven.

However He chooses to extend His grace and mercy, I thank and praise Him.

[FJ290]

Romans 3:10,"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

But.. your KJV says there are those that are righteous. St. Luke 1:5-6:

"THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

Mary is physically dead now or should be.

So? Are you saying that she isn't in Heaven?

[mockingbyrd]

"I can't see where a born-again, Holy Spirit filled Christian would even consider having fellowship with a muzlim under any circumstances"

Because they too are children of God and Jesus Christ died to save them. It is a tragedy that they do not know to call God Father and to accept Jesus Christ and their Lord and Savior. We have been given the gift of faith, it is our duty to preach the Gospel.

[dollars_for_dogma]

"Cuz she's dead...Dead people don't pray so good...Besides, it's againt my religion to try to communicate with the dead..."

Do you include the holy souls in Heaven that our Lord has chosen to be with Him forever?

The Book of Maccabees explains that we are to pray for the souls of the faithful departed.

[dollars_for_dogma]

"2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

Well, we Catholics continue to keep company with you.

[RobbyS]

Mary is not "dead". She does not cease to be the mother of Jesus Christ anymore than your mother will ever crease to be your mother. The difference is who her child is and who your mother's child is.

[RobbyS]

"... except historically as the mother of Jesus." And what is that "historic" role? If we look at the two chapters of Luke, we see that this is far more significant than the role of mother of being the mother of Isaac or Samuel. "And the Word became flesh." as John puts it. Mary is an integral part of the mystery of the incarnation.

[Iscool]

Well, we Catholics continue to keep company with you.

Ha! Not all Catholics are saved...And even tho you are taught that non Catholics are NOT saved, I know better...However, not all Episcopalians nor Baptists are saved either...

The point is, no Christian has any business having fellowship with a muzlim...No muzlims are saved...And not only that, but they have an obligation to convert you to their religion, have you denounce Jesus Christ which is denouncing God and if they can't, they are to kill you...

If you are saved, you are filled with the Holy Spirit...No muzlim has the Holy Spirit...

[Iscool]

The Book of Maccabees explains that we are to pray for the souls of the faithful departed.

The Jews of the Old Testament as well as modern Jews did/do not accept the Apocrapha as inspired writings...Why the Roman church does is beyond me...

[RobbyS]

And why you prefer a canon established in the year 85 by Pharisees who rejected Christ is beyond me. Luther, of his own authority, did it because it does support the doctrine of purgatory.

[dollars_for_dogma]

"The Jews of the Old Testament as well as modern Jews did/do not accept the Apocrapha as inspired writings...

The Jews did not/do not accept Jesus Christ as Messiah, either.

The Maccabees were a Jewish family (2d and 1st cent. B.C.) that helped restore Jewish religious and political life.

"Why the Roman church does is beyond me..."

You'll have to register your complaint with the Holy Spirit.

Nonetheless, Maccabees 1 & 2 are part of the Vulgate (and later eliminated from the protestant bible by Martin Luther).

[dollars_for_dogma]

"And even tho you are taught that non Catholics are NOT saved...."

That it is not Catholic teaching.

Perhaps reading a copy of The Baltimore Catechism (a primer for Catholics school children) would help you to understand what is Catholic teaching and what is not.

It's nothing like the Koran.

[Binghamton_native]

How do you square this with your post #36

[NYer]

Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation.

Were Jesus born of a sinner as some claim, that would mean either

a) the Savior could not save His own Mother from contracting sin or

b) He refused to honor His Mother in every way he could.

So Jesus would be either a weak Savior or a trangressor of His own Commandment to "Honor your father and your mother" (Exodus 20:12). The Immaculate Conception is clearly a belief which exalts Jesus!

Genesis 3:15 is a prophecy of the Messiah ("Seed of the woman") and His Virgin Mother (the "woman").  Notice that God says "I will put enmity between you (the serpent) and the woman", that is, between Satan and Mary!  God foretold in the Garden that He would put enmity between the Devil and the Mother of the Messiah.  Satan would be enemies not only with Mary's Son, but with Mary herself!

Now the Bible says that sin makes us enemies of God (Mt 12:30; Ro 5:8-10; James 4:4) and children of the Devil (Jn 8:44; I Jn 3:10).  A sinner is not Satan's enemy, but his ally--even his "child", or seed! Were Mary ever a sinner, she would not be the devil's enemy, as God had decreed; she would have been the devil's daughter and the enemy of God-the enemy of her own Son! God's promise to put enmity between her and the ancient Serpent would then be a lie!

Yet God cannot lie, and His word always comes to pass (Is 55:10).  So He did indeed put enmity between Satan and the Woman by preserving the Woman from all sin, original and actual.  Mary is not a child of the Devil; by God's Will she is a daughter of God from the beginning of her existence and the ally of her Seed against the evil one.

In Luke 1:28, the angel Gabriel greets Mary as "full of grace".  Protestant translations often render this as "highly favored", but this is a weak, inaccurate translation.  The Greek term here is kecharitomene, a perfect present participle of the verb charitoo, which denotes "grace".  A perfect participle indicates an action completed in the past with existing results, and a present participle denotes continuous or repeated action.

So kecharitomene means "you who were and continue to be full of and completed in grace".  Now grace is not mere unmerited favor, but God's gift of spiritual life and communion with Himself.  Sin and grace are opposed (Romans 5:20-21), and grace saves us from sin (Eph 2:5, 8). So Mary's fullness of grace indicates a complete absence of sin.  Thus Luke 1:28 provides a second hint at Mary's sinlessness.

We also see a type of Mary's sinlessness in the holiness of the Ark of the Covenant.  The original ark was clearly a holy vessel.  God meticulously outlined the construction (Ex 25:10-22) and the Holy Spirit actually inspired the artisan who formed it (31:2-3)!  It was made from the finest, purest materials and consecrated to the service of God in the Tabernacle.  The Ark had to be perfect and holy, worthy to bear the awesome Presence of the Holy One of Israel.  It was so holy only a few could touch it (Num 4:15, 2 Sam 6:2-7).

If such an inanimate object could be so holy, how much more holy must Mary have been?  In order to be a worthy vessel for the all-holy God, she had to be utterly holy.  Like the original ark, she was set apart for that sacred task from the beginning of her existence.  This is why Jesus preserved her from contracting original sin by applying the sin-cleansing merits of His Precious Blood to her beforehand.

Christ is the Holy One of Israel in the flesh.  The Bible tells us over and over again about the utter Holiness of God.  It even says that His name is "Holy" (Is 57:15); and in Hebrew thought ones name expressed ones essence.  If God is Holiness Itself, how could He dwell in an unholy vessel? How could the One Who demands holiness from His people (Lev 19:2) and particularly from the priests who minister before Him (Ex 28:6) dwell for nine months in an unholy woman!

Finally, the Bible says "Holiness becometh thine house, O Lord" (Ps 93:5).  Mary was the Lord's "house" for nine months!  If holiness becometh God's house, how could Mary not be holy?  She, like the Tabernacle of old, had to be utterly pure and holy, completely sanctified and consecrated to the Lord, for she was to be the living Holy of holies, the sacred dwelling of the all-holy God.

Taken together, these passages present a powerful biblical case for Mary's sinlessness.  God promised to make her the enemy of the father of sin, the angel declared her to be embued with spiritual life, and her role in bearing the Holy One necessitated that she be utterly holy, like the ark or Tabernacle of old.

[NYer]

Thank you for the post, link and description. Would that catholics were more familiar with the catechism as you.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I fail to see how they are respectful to Mary when they disrespect her Son by saying He's not Divine, He's not the Son of God.

You're one of the smarter RCs on this forum. Discernment counts. 8~)

[NYer]

Bless you!

[OpusatFR]

"He said that the dialogue between Christians and Muslims "can begin afresh from Mary.""

Satan really is subtle. Dialogue proposes two or more views in opposition to each other. There is no common ground regarding why Mary is venerated. She is the Mother of God.

~Not the mother of simply another prophet.

[kittymyrib]

In the Magnificat, Mary speaks of "God, my Savior." If Mary were sinless, she would have no need for a Savior. No where in the Bible does it say that anyone was sinless except Jesus.