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To: HarleyD
"As far as declaring Orthodox and Roman Catholics as different sacraments I said there are differences in the sacrament-not that they were different sacraments. Differences that you've acknowledge."

HD, the differences really don't make a difference for us. It isn't a matter of glossing over differences just to get along. As the Latin Rite Christians here will tell you, the Orthodox are not at all prone to accept changes to doctrine simply to get along, nor for that matter are the Latins. In many areas, what you see in an Orthodox sacrament is quite different from what you see in a Latin one and how we pray when conducting those sacraments can be quite different. In fact, as I think about it, none of our sacraments are conducted in the exact same way and we speak about none of them in the same way, but they are in fact the same sacrament. The various liturgies The Church uses to celebrate the Eucharist are the most obvious example of this both in what you see and what we say about what is going on (the most dramatic example of a difference in what we say and do in a sacrament is probably marriage, but I'll stick to the Eucharist). The differences in what one sees are well known. The Latins use the Novus Ordo Mass, we use the Divine Liturgy of +John Chrysostomos. To me an NO Mass looks very Protestant, but it isn't and to a modern American Latin Rite Christian the Divine Liturgy may seem an exercise in sacramental obscurantism, but it isn't and both are the "liturgia" or work of the people within which the Bread and Wine become the Body and Blood of Christ, exactly the same in both Churches. How we speak of these liturgies is also quite different. For the Latin Rite, the liturgy is called the Sacrifice of the Mass and the emphasis is often placed on the sacrificial aspects of the Passion and Crucifixion of Christ. In the Orthodox Divine Liturgy the emphasis is on the glory of the Resurrection with all of us praising the Ruler of the Universe, the Pantokrator, actually with the angels and the saints in a place where the distinction between heaven and earth dissolves on the "Eighth Day". But they are both the valid and God ordained settings for the exact same sacrament.

This applies for all the sacraments and honestly isn't an example of syncretism born of a commitment to ecumenism.

Now there are a plethora of subjects upon which we disagree, beyond the obvious one about papal authority. There is a fundamental difference about our understanding of the Fall which has far reaching implications. You know about that. We do not and never have believed in indulgences. We do not and never have believed in purgatory, though especially among the Russians there have been some speculations in that regard and even a few who accepted the concept, but that was as a result of Western influences and are no longer considered acceptable. There are also a multitude of discipline type differences and the way each Church approaches the canons is quite different. But none of these differences go to the heart of the sacraments we hold in common.

By the way, your comments don't make me in the least angry. They haven't since I came to the conclusion that you are quite sincere in your delusion! :)
79 posted on 11/29/2005 5:27:23 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
They haven't since I came to the conclusion that you are quite sincere in your delusion!

LOL!!! At least we must admit their sincere delusions. :O)

83 posted on 11/29/2005 5:56:10 PM PST by HarleyD ("Command what you will and give what you command." - Augustine's Prayer)
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