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Bishop Urges Talk of Polticians at Vatican
Yahoo News ^ | October 4, 2005 | Nicole Winfield

Posted on 10/04/2005 1:14:14 PM PDT by NYer

The senior American at the Vatican has urged a meeting of the world's bishops to discuss whether Catholic politicians who support abortion rights should receive communion, saying the issue had divided many in the U.S. church.

Archbishop William Levada, who heads the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, made the appeal during a debate late Monday at the synod of bishops, the Oct. 2-23 meeting of bishops discussing major issues facing the Church.

Levada also asked to hear the experiences of other church leaders on the topic, according to the Rev. John Bartunek, briefing reporters on developments in the closed-door meeting.

"This issue has caused some divisions among the people in the church" during the 2004 presidential election, the briefer quoted Levada as saying. During the campaign, St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke said he would deny Communion to Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Catholic who supports abortion rights.

The working document for the synod said it was a sin for the faithful to support Catholic politicians who themselves back abortion and other policies contrary to church teaching.

"Some receive Communion while denying the teachings of the church or publicly supporting immoral choices in life, such as abortion, without thinking that they are committing an act of grave personal dishonesty and causing scandal," the document said.

"Some Catholics do not understand why it might be a sin to support a political candidate who is openly in favor of abortion or other serious acts against life, justice and peace."

The briefer said the issue of the shortage of priests came up, but made no mention of suggestions of addressing it by allowing married men into the priesthood or ordaining women as deacons.

Honduran Bishop Roberto Camilleri Azzopardi said the key was a better distribution of priests in the world. He noted that in his diocese there was one priest for every 16,000 Catholics.

While Pope Benedict XVI listened in the Vatican's synod hall where the meetings are taking place, across the River Tiber, members the European-based We Are Church and the American FutureChurch reform groups outlined their hopes for the synod.

"We would like the bishops to have more liberty to decide for themselves, according to the requirements and demands of their specific regions," said German theology professor Dr. Norbert Scholl.

Referring to the synod whose specific topic is the Eucharist, the groups said their main concerns were the shortage of priests and the problem of sharing Communion with other Christian denominations.

"`When members of the same family cannot sit down and eat together, the family is in trouble," said Austrian psychologist Martha Heizer.

An American nun, Sister Christine Schenk from FutureChurch, noted that parishes in the United States are being affected by the shortage of priests. Along with allowing non-celibate men into the priesthood, she suggested women deacons. "There are a lot of available and willing women out there," she said at a news conference Tuesday.

The groups expressed the hope that Benedict could make changes.

"He knows the rules of the game," said Heizer, pointing to the pope's 24 years of experience as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith before his election to the papacy in April.


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
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1 posted on 10/04/2005 1:14:14 PM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
An American nun, Sister Christine Schenk from FutureChurch, noted that parishes in the United States are being affected by the shortage of priests. Along with allowing non-celibate men into the priesthood, she suggested women deacons. "There are a lot of available and willing women out there," she said at a news conference Tuesday.

Leave it to the MSM to cite catholic dissenters.

2 posted on 10/04/2005 1:16:18 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
While Pope Benedict XVI listened in the Vatican's synod hall where the meetings are taking place, across the River Tiber, members the European-based We Are Church and the American FutureChurch reform groups outlined their hopes for the synod.

In other news, two ladies' softball teams will be playing a game just a few blocks from the dome on Superbowl Sunday.

3 posted on 10/04/2005 1:19:57 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: NYer
more discussions. why don't they just make a decision already. I thought ratzinger made it clear and further explained by Arinze and Myers.
4 posted on 10/04/2005 1:22:52 PM PDT by Coleus (Feast of St. Francis & L'Shana Tova, May your name be Inscribed in the Book of Life)
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To: Coleus

Why don't some of them just join ECUSA? I'm sure Robinson and Chane would welcome them all with open arms.


5 posted on 10/04/2005 1:27:11 PM PDT by Jaded (Hell sometimes has fluorescent lighting and a trumpet.)
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To: NYer; american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding
she suggested women deacons. "There are a lot of available and willing women out there," she said at a news conference Tuesday.

Ironic that there is a shortage of men, that will only get worse, but an unending supply of willing women (and some non-celibate men, if they run out of the ladies). Hmmm. No agenda here. Nothing to see, move along.

Leave it to the MSM to cite catholic dissenters.

You'd think there would be a lot less Catholic bashing, what with the news reporting positively on dissenters and their ideas as the 'mainstream'.

6 posted on 10/04/2005 1:40:04 PM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: NYer
As I understand it, in the days of St. John Chrysostom etc. there were deaconesses whose role was catechizing and baptizing women. This was because men could not respectable visit women in their homes and then confer the sacrament of Baptism, which was done naked. These deaconesses also visited the sick, brought alms to the poor, and other wise participated in charitable work.

I don't think it was ever considered that they were in some way entering the clergy (deacon-priest-bishop), which was and is distinct.

7 posted on 10/04/2005 1:47:14 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Live and Let Live)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Excellent point!


8 posted on 10/04/2005 1:50:47 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer

Hmmm, Fr. John Bartunek is, I think, Fr. John Bartunek, LC (of "Inside the Passion" and TV commentary fame).

Very interesting for several reasons.

He's a Stanford man, too.


9 posted on 10/04/2005 2:53:35 PM PDT by Theophane
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To: NYer
An American nun, Sister Christine Schenk from FutureChurch, noted that parishes in the United States are being affected by the shortage of priests. Along with allowing non-celibate men into the priesthood, she suggested women deacons. "There are a lot of available and willing women out there," she said at a news conference Tuesday.

Why don't they just go join the Episcopalians? Is it not enough that these kind of crazies have already destroyed the Episcopalians as a Christian denomination? Do they have to keep working to destroy us too?

10 posted on 10/04/2005 3:30:36 PM PDT by Maeve (Praying for America because we really need it.)
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To: Maeve
Do they have to keep working to destroy us too?

Maeve, ask yourself this one simple question. If you were Satan, which of the Christian Churches you wish to see destroyed, offers the most resistance? Et, voila! You have the answer to your question. The other christian churches caved easily, victims of the seeds sown on dry soil ...... as (then Cardinal) Ratzinger reminded us in his PRO ELIGENDO ROMANO PONTIFICE Homily:

"How many winds of doctrine have we known in recent decades, how many ideological currents, how many ways of thinking. The small boat of the thought of many Christians has often been tossed about by these waves - flung from one extreme to another: from Marxism to liberalism, even to libertinism; from collectivism to radical individualism; from atheism to a vague religious mysticism; from agnosticism to syncretism and so forth. Every day new sects spring up, and what St Paul says about human deception and the trickery that strives to entice people into error (cf. Eph 4: 14) comes true.

Today, having a clear faith based on the Creed of the Church is often labeled as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, that is, letting oneself be "tossed here and there, carried about by every wind of doctrine", seems the only attitude that can cope with modern times. We are building a dictatorship of relativism that does not recognize anything as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of one's own ego and desires.

We, however, have a different goal: the Son of God, the true man. He is the measure of true humanism. An "adult" faith is not a faith that follows the trends of fashion and the latest novelty; a mature adult faith is deeply rooted in friendship with Christ. It is this friendship that opens us up to all that is good and gives us a criterion by which to distinguish the true from the false, and deceipt from truth.

We must develop this adult faith; we must guide the flock of Christ to this faith. And it is this faith - only faith - that creates unity and is fulfilled in love."

Dissenters, dear friend, are driven not by what they know in their souls but what they hear in their heads. The Evil One lies in wait of those who seek 'fame' or 'recognition' and swoops in for the kill.

Place your trust in the Holy Spirit (as I know you do) and have NO fear. He guides this Church through the descendants of St. Peter. Who better than Pope Benedict XVI to stand at the helm at this moment in time!

May our Lord bless and richly reward you and your entire family for your faith!

11 posted on 10/04/2005 4:20:50 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer

"The briefer said the issue of the shortage of priests came up, but made no mention of suggestions of addressing it by allowing married men into the priesthood or ordaining women as deacons."

This news source continues to lose any credibility as it fails to make any effort at all to distinguish between discipline and doctrine.


12 posted on 10/04/2005 4:23:50 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

"As I understand it, in the days of St. John Chrysostom etc. there were deaconesses whose role was catechizing and baptizing women. This was because men could not respectable visit women in their homes and then confer the sacrament of Baptism, which was done naked. These deaconesses also visited the sick, brought alms to the poor, and other wise participated in charitable work."

Indeed there were. They also brought communion to the sick, catechised grown women and nursed sick women.

"I don't think it was ever considered that they were in some way entering the clergy (deacon-priest-bishop), which was and is distinct."

Actually, they were considered "clergy" and went through what was called an ordination, using the same word in Greek as describes ordination to the diaconate for men. It is vitally important to remember, however, that this order of the clergy was specifically designed to fulfill strictly circumscribed functions, was limited to older unmarried women, usually widows and was not at all seen as a step towards the priesthood. The Holy Synod of the Church of Greece recently voted to reinstitute the order on a limited basis with the traditional functions.


13 posted on 10/04/2005 5:45:15 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: NYer

Thank you for that encouragement. Truly, thank you.


14 posted on 10/04/2005 5:47:12 PM PDT by Maeve (Praying........)
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A Voter's Guide: Pro-choice candidates and church teaching

Cardinal Arinze Reiterates - for the N'th Time - No Communion for Pro-Abort Politicians

McCarrick Ratzinger Spin is The Second Time - Remember Arinze

Statement by Ray Flynn of 'Your Catholic Voice' Regarding Comment by Cardinal Arinze on Communion

FLASHBACK: Cardinal Ratzinger Orders Kerry Communion Ban

Cardinal Ratzinger said, "The minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it."

CARDINAL RATZINGER ORDERS KERRY COMMUNION BAN!

The Kerry Affair: What Ratzinger Wanted from the American Bishops

Ratzinger-Kerry, Act II. The Well-Tempered Controversy

McCarrick Ratzinger Spin is The Second Time - Remember Arinze

Cardinal McCarrick & the Ratzinger Memorandum (CatholicKerryWatch)

Cardinal McCarrick says leaked Ratzinger memo is not whole story

CARDINAL RATZINGER ORDERS KERRY COMMUNION BAN!

The Kerry Affair: What Ratzinger Wanted from the American Bishops (Rome: "REFUSE Eucharist!")

Ratzinger joins US debate on withholding Eucharist

Ratzinger joins US debate on withholding Eucharist

Ratzinger against public sanctions on abortionists

CARDINAL RATZINGER SEVERELY CRITICIZES U.N.'S PROPOSAL FOR NEW WORLD ORDER

15 posted on 10/04/2005 6:38:33 PM PDT by Coleus (Feast of St. Francis & L'Shana Tova, May your name be Inscribed in the Book of Life)
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To: NYer
"We would like the bishops to have more liberty to decide for themselves, according to the requirements and demands of their specific regions," said German theology professor Dr. Norbert Scholl.

"`When members of the same family cannot sit down and eat together, the family is in trouble," said Austrian psychologist Martha Heizer.

An American nun, Sister Christine Schenk from FutureChurch, noted that parishes in the United States are being affected by the shortage of priests. Along with allowing non-celibate men into the priesthood, she suggested women deacons. "There are a lot of available and willing women out there," she said at a news conference Tuesday.

It sounds (and smells) like the smoke (and occasional flame) of satan is still trying to blow across the Tiber...

16 posted on 10/04/2005 7:28:16 PM PDT by kstewskis ("I don't know what I know, but I know that it's big".....Jerry Fletcher)
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To: kstewskis; NYer; sitetest; Maeve
It sounds (and smells) like the smoke (and occasional flame) of satan is still trying to blow across the Tiber...

Cor Jesu sacratissimum, miserere nobis! (Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us!)
Dignare me laudare te, Virgo Sacrate. Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos! (Vouchsafe that I may praise thee, O Sacred Virgin. Give me strength against thine enemies!)
Gaude, Maria Virgo, cunctas haereses sola interemisti in universo mundo! (Rejoice, O Virgin Mary, thou alone hast put down all heresies in the whole world!)
Sancte Joseph, Protector sanctae Ecclesiae, ora pro nobis! (St. Joseph, Protector of Holy Church, pray for us!)
Popes St. Pius IX, and Blessed Pius IX, pray for us!

17 posted on 10/04/2005 8:41:15 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Blessed Pius IX, pray for us!)
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To: kstewskis; NYer; sitetest; Maeve
Oops. That last one should be:

Popes St. Pius X, and Blessed Pius IX, pray for us!

I've had Blessed Pius IX on my mind for the past few days, so it's no wonder.

18 posted on 10/04/2005 8:43:59 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Blessed Pius IX, pray for us!)
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To: NYer; AnAmericanMother; Maeve; Pyro7480; wideawake; sitetest; BlackElk; ArrogantBustard
"While Pope Benedict XVI listened in the Vatican's synod hall where the meetings are taking place, across the River Tiber, members the European-based We Are Church and the American FutureChurch reform groups outlined their hopes for the synod. "We would like the bishops to have more liberty to decide for themselves, according to the requirements and demands of their specific regions," said German theology professor Dr. Norbert Scholl. Referring to the synod whose specific topic is the Eucharist, the groups said their main concerns were the shortage of priests and the problem of sharing Communion with other Christian denominations. "`When members of the same family cannot sit down and eat together, the family is in trouble," said Austrian psychologist Martha Heizer. An American nun, Sister Christine Schenk from FutureChurch, noted that parishes in the United States are being affected by the shortage of priests. Along with allowing non-celibate men into the priesthood, she suggested women deacons. "There are a lot of available and willing women out there," she said at a news conference Tuesday. The groups expressed the hope that Benedict could make changes. "He knows the rules of the game," said Heizer, pointing to the pope's 24 years of experience as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith before his election to the papacy in April."

Aw jeeze, not this [bleeeeeep] again! Time for Benedict XVI and the orthodox leadership to get very serious with this carpetbagging "dissenters", apply a few hickory switches to cabooses, and follow up with excommunications. These people are not part of the Church in any real way, shape, or form. Send them down the street to the local episcopagan or unitarian gathering.
19 posted on 10/05/2005 5:20:13 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (Not a nickel, not a dime, no more money for Hamastine!)
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To: Convert from ECUSA
They keep quoting these miniscule "dissident" groups as if they were equal participants in the discussion.

This would be like writing an article on baseball and quoting Red Sox fans equally with the Yankees' GM on matters pertaining to Yankees' business strategy.

They have no standing, no professional expertise and a conflict of interest.

20 posted on 10/05/2005 5:56:23 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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