PROPHETIC SIGNS THAT WE ARE IN THE END TIMES [A good summary of SOME key evidences--QX]

Quix, something just occurred to me, after reviewing your responses on this thread. Feel free to reply via FReepmail, if you don't wish to continue this discussion in public. Here's my question:

Do you have a friend who considers himself, or perhaps you consider yourself, to be an anointed Prophet of the Lord?

At least a few.

Some to the office with the gifts and some the gifts without the office.

At least a few

Have any of them claimed that God told them such-and-such would specifically occur in such-and-such a way, by date X, and it didn't come to pass - if even only once?

I see your attitude, perspective and openness have not changed a shred. I don't consider dialogue possible.

Bye.

Me: Have any of them claimed that God told them such-and-such would specifically occur in such-and-such a way, by date X, and it didn't come to pass - if even only once?

Quix - I see your attitude, perspective and openness have not changed a shred. I don't consider dialogue possible.

I think we can all take that as a "yes", or at least as a aggrivated-but-concerned "maybe". Now should your friends ever utter something that doesn't come to pass, you should be very afraid of who your friends have been listening to. And I would exhort you to keep a scorecard on them, starting tonight.

I promised you via FReepmail that I had no intentions of hijacking your thread, and that I would make just one more post on it - and this was it.

I find your assumptions about me enormously askew at best and mostly off the wall.

Thanks for caring.

I'm quite confident of The Lord's leading and care of me in this topic area as well as others.

I'd feel much more spiritually at risk and vulnerable sitting under certain . . . teachings in related congregations as so often outlined and expressed hereon.

GIVEN that the Apostle Peter's exhortation seems to have left you unenlightened, I'm quite sure I can add nothing fruitful to his illustrious efforts.

I'm afraid it's your rather frivilous use of the Scriptures that give me pause. You can't even outline the context of Acts 2, but yet you seem quite convinced that it supports your preconceptions about modern day prophets.

Add to that your naivete about modern day "prophecies" that have allegedly been given, including the fact that you cannot state how you identify a "true prophet", leads me to think you are "blown about be every wind of doctrine".

THIS IS FROM PAM CLARK'S SITE.

I've always loved Pam Clark. She's real down to earth; candid; practical; REAL. I don't know the source of this particular doc but most of it sounds on, to me. Blessings;

http://www.prophetic.net/testspirit.htm

TEST THE SPIRIT
by Sharon Hine

Children, I love you, I am your front and rear guard, your song in the night and your bright morning star. My Spirit will guide you into all truth, not a greater revelation surplus to scripture, but the truth as revealed by My Word.
Test the spirit, child, test the spirit. Even that which seems plausible, even that which seems right, submit it to My Word. Does it contradict My Word of Love? Does it oppose My Word of Grace? Does it rob you of freedom or joy? Does it fill you with peace? Does it leave you in hope? Does it ignite a passion for Me?

For I would not give you any word that would bring division. I would not be in words of condemnation and control. I AM the author of life, not the prince of death! So I say to you again child, test the spirit, for the enemy of your soul draws near to deceive, be on your guard. At this time, you will be called upon to stand up against false prophecy and instruct in My love - for I am calling you to work in the opposite spirit.

The old is being made new as I pour out My Holy Spirit upon the earth, but I will start with My House. The cleansing has started, the time has come and I say I will sort the wheat from the chaff. Look to Me at this time don't look at the water beneath your feet but trust My love.

This is a walk of faith and will continue to be a walk of faith as I move in your life in a deeper way. Allow My Holy Spirit to touch those areas which have been untouched and allow Him to guide you. My Spirit is gentle, He is love and peace.

My Spirit will not be offended if you test Him on whether Jesus has come in the flesh, My Spirit will welcome your test. So test the spirit and walk in truth and humility. Test the spirit and oppose the enemy who would come to steal, kill and destroy.

CHARISMATIC ATTACKS
by Pam Clark

There are many of us who came into more fullness in the Spirit and faith of God through the charismatic movement. It was ~truly~ an incredible move, for in this outpoured wave (and there are many waves of varying sizes), it was not just a healing move, although there were many healings. It was not just an outpouring of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and there was much of that. It was not just a new doctrinal position, for many were brought forth, but it was ALL THAT among MANY MANY people of varying races and denominations. It was as if God said, "Anybody hungry?" and thousands poured out for His inpouring.
There was a season of holiness and awesomeness - the gifts of the Spirit rose up in the crested wave and we RAN to keep up with what was going on. Prophetic ministry was strong (for that season of understanding it) as well as a global awareness of what God was doing, as well as other gift ministries which included deliverance and healing and end time ministry focus. The tangible Presence of God was felt (where I was) without "strange" manifestions, except for speaking in toungues and upraised hands to the Lord. Even a little dancing broke out, "as David danced." Miracles were not uncommon. Angels were seen, as well as visions of Jesus that didn't seem to lead people too "way out" there. Now a lot of this does not seem so "uncommon" from a few short years prior!

Yes, out of the zeal, there were excesses as there are in any movement. But what was gained was a foretaste for many different people groups and denominations. Many many ministries were birthed through this time of holy encounter and even when it seemed to fade or die out or even appear broken with ministry scandals and failure, the work still went on, as in the book of Acts when the people who had gathered for the initial outpouring were scattered back into their homelands with this "new message" of God's love and acceptance and visitation. And the good news is that the visitations have not ceased. They are just not so centralized as they once were before.

Many attempts with some successes have been made for that centralization but fleshly attempts could never accomplish what God did sovereignly through that "charismatic" move. In those services, one could ask, "How many Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Jewish, and Baptist people are here?" and healthy numbers would raise their hands in one meeting (after another).

Even different cultures and races were finding unity together despite the hindrances of language and culture styles. There was a supernatural blending as never before, with missions emphasis and representation that rocked the world and the church world of that time. It was an incredible move where God broke down the walls that not only separated but also that opened doors to new and blended revelation.

Was that controversial? You betcha! But the walls came tumbling down and the revelation poured in and with fear and trembling the Church grew significantly NOT just in numbers but in understandings.

When the de-centralization took place because the leaders could not handle it, people separated and there was grief and mourning but that led to more individualized personal growth and by return, the pollenation of many other established mainline type ministries with the gifts of the Spirit.

The battles were hard, but the battles were also won. While we came to understand persecution from the brethren, the joy of newfound fellowship in the gifts also exploded among like kind in fresh zeal for evangelism and even later in prayer. Much bridge building was worked at and accomplished.

The results of this "charismatic" move (charisma means gifts or gifted) did bring about much controversy and some excesses, but even more, it brought about unity. So honestly, when people attack charismatics as "flakey, dingy, flippant, crazy, nuts" or paint them with many other derogative terms, I get offended.

You can't hurt me personally with those terms, and perhaps I have qualified a time or two for my exhuberance or a misunderstanding in my personal struggle, but when people label negatively this group move, I cringe because I think they don't know what they do.

This move was not a misfit move of God. It was indeed a most sovereign move that changed Christianity as we know it today to be a strong force in overcoming world evils. It will continue to grow, building on the future and former moves of God, for indeed it is Him Who by His Spirit is building His Church.

Competitive attempts at organization will never succeed to daunt God ordained Spirit led moves of God. The Body of Christ needs to continue to grow in its understandings of the blended moves of God. People may do it different but Spiritual fruit will reveal Spiritual purpose. Instead of looking for what's wrong and labeling those who are different than we are, can we see the Big Picture of a Big God who loves His Creation?

When we seek God for His moves, can we be content at what He gives us? God wants power moves more than we do. But He will only be recognized for Who He really is rather than what we bill Him to be on our advertizing flyers and billboards that seem like it is all "here or there."

Is there anything wrong with promoting Him? Absolutely not. But let's not let declaring our opinions that "this is it" take the place of allowing God to reveal Who He really is through man He created in His Image, male and female.

We don't have to hype and promote and cloak in mystery or fear what God is really doing or is all about. He is Who He is and we fail Him by not obeying Him personally and individually. Too often in the name of a group mentality, we compromise what is really Truth. We ourselves lose out when that happens.

God will bless what He can bless and it is His desire to bless, reveal and demonstrate, but if our integrity is lacking, His Hands are tied.

God bless you.

DISCERNING THE PROPHETIC
- by Nita Botzenmayer

http://www.prophetic.net/pminnita.htm

These were posts that were published on the
Trumpet Wind Ministries Prophetic Email List.
I thought it was so good, that I wanted to
post it on the web site too.

TRUMPET WIND MINISTRIES PROPHETIC EMAIL LIST
Posted - September 29, 2000

NOTE FROM PAM:

The article which follows is really good. As she states, it is a good introduction to understand the prophets. One line in here though gives me a challenge: "Prophets are willing to submit to the authority over them."

The very nature of a prophet (office prophet) is not just to give comforting or futuristic words of personal interest, but it is also to reprove the status quo when it is off. Sometimes that means challenging leadership. (Sometimes that means backing off.)

Trying to "control" prophets really nullifies them. GOD sends His prophets for corrections. Mutual submission, respect for authority and order is all very important though.

The five fold office ministries should work together as a team. (I've noticed it's very hard to do because of the power of it which is resisted vehemently by the enemy.)

The pastor is not "over" the prophet. Nor is the apostle "over" the prophet, nor is the prophet "over" the evangelist, pastor, teacher, etc. When the true five fold ministry learns to work together without lording it over, the Church will explode!

______________________________________________________

Discerning the Prophetic
by Nita Botzenmayer
In the 'mainline' church environment where I minister, the gifts of the spirit and the five-fold ministry are just beginning to be recognized as something for now, instead of something that happened historically in the Bible. The prophetic voice is being heard, and along with it, satan has reared his ugly head and brought in false prophetic voices to deceive. Some have already fallen into deception. Few know how to tell the difference between the false and the true.

To help teach the truth and expose the lies of the enemy, I sought the Lord for some basics. The mindset of many is still to depend on the pastor for teaching and application from the Word, and many simply don't have time to study in depth. Yet they need the protection of God from deception. So I believe the Lord provided me with this brief "starter kit" on learning to accurately discern the true word of prophecy and the prophet. Perhaps it will be helpful to you to share with others "new" to the prophetic. There will be much to add, I'm sure, but we have to start somewhere!

Nita

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DISCERNING THE PROPHETIC

In these days of increased prophetic activity, it is critically important that we be able to discern the true from the false; else we shall be deceived and misled. Many of us have received sound instruction regarding the prophetic, but to many it is a new subject. I asked the Lord for some good 'bottom line' guidelines for discernment - things that can be quickly read and applied in our lives.

Jesus said:

Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (KJV)

The "if" in this passage is the Greek conditional, which is better translated "since". That means it is possible for us to be deceived! But God's guidelines in His Word, the inner witness of the Holy Spirit (John 16:13) and the gift of discernment from the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:10), provide us with tools to accurate discernment.

Here are 4 "quick" guidelines from the Word to help in discerning the prophetic.

YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUIT

First are the words of Jesus:

Matt 7:15-16 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? (KJV)

Notice it is the Fruit, not the Gift, that gives discernment, for the Gifts are without repentance (Rom 11:29). The fruit of the Spirit must be evident in the life of the prophet. Primary fruit - can you feel the love of God from this person and their words? (This does not mean sinless perfection!)

BEWARE OF LABELS

There are congregations which try to recognize the gifts of their individual members and give them titles, such as "evangelist, prophet, etc.". This can be positive, as it recognizes each person as a valuable member of the Body of Christ, and encourages them to walk in their gifts and callings. However, there is a down side.

Mistakes can be made. Pride can enter in. Jealousy and strife can result, which opens the door to every evil work (James 3:16). We are to desire the higher gifts, but not be jealous of someone else who receives them. We can all prophesy (1 Cor. 14:31), but all are not prophets.

Jesus set the example of humility. The majority of the time, he called himself "the Son of Man". He refers to himself as a prophet (in small caps) only twice: (1) see Matt 13:57, Mark 6:4, Luke 4:24, and John 4:44, and (2) Luke 13:33.

The strongest warning about labels is in Revelation 2:20-23:

20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.
21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.
22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.
23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. (NIV)

The Strong's concordance reveals the underlying meaning that this false prophet causes God's servants to stray from the truth, to get off the path.
Jezebel is a witchcraft spirit, and its prophetic insight is NOT from God. The word of knowledge, which may be true, comes from the same source as tarot card readers, palm readers, etc. - from familiar spirits (demons). Note: not all false prophets are women. This passage reveals the spirit in operation behind this particular kind of false prophet.

If you are called to walk in the office of prophet, God himself will establish you. Others will recognize the gift and authority from the Lord. Giving yourself a title, even if it's true, will not do what only God can do.

A PROPHET SUBMITS TO AUTHORITY

Prophets are willing to submit to the authority over them, and to submit their words to other prophets for discernment. Other prophetic voices will confirm a word as being from the Lord, and/or add interpretation and application to it, thereby making it more edifying for the Body, which is the purpose of the prophetic.

1 Cor 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. (KJV)

Anyone who resists submitting to other prophetic voices, or who resists, disdains, or defies authority is not a true prophet of God.

A PROPHET IS AN INTERCESSOR AND PERSON OF PRAYER

A prophetic person will spend much time in prayer. It is key to hearing and recognizing the voice of the Lord. This is another fruit to be examined in the life of a person operating in the prophetic.

EVERY biblical prophet was an intercessor. The scripture below bears witness to this conclusion, as does a quick study of the prophets in the Old Testament, beginning with Abraham.

[Jer 27:18] But if they be prophets, and if the word of the Lord be with them, let them now make intercession to the Lord of hosts that the vessels which are left in the house of the Lord, and in the house of the king of Judah, and at Jerusalem, go not to Babylon.]

This is an important characteristic of the true prophetic ministry - another fruit. This is so important to God. For those just beginning to experience giving prophetic words, this is NOT A GAME! It is an awesome responsibility to give the Word of the Lord.

The power of life & death is in the tongue, especially of a prophetic word. For words of correction, there is a BIG difference between the Conviction of the Lord, and the condemnation of the enemy.

Intercession produces the right heart toward others - God's heart. It eliminates judgment and condemnation. It produces compassion for others. It helps keep the Lord's word pure and untainted by the flesh. It helps the prophet to stay humble and prevents him from falling into pride.

Even though Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, highly exalted above everything, he also is still humbling himself and "ever lives to make intercession for us" (Hebrews 7:25).

There are those called to intercession who are not prophets, but all prophets bear some intercessory burden.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

God does not want us to be led astray - He gives us standards in His Word to help our discernment. These are a start. The Word says we are to test the spirits to see if they be of God, and hold fast to that which is good. (I Thess 5:19-21 & I Jn 4:1)

If you are just realizing you have a prophetic call, this is also a challenge to "examine yourself before the Lord" and ask Him to help you "do it right".

September 30, 2000

DISCERNING THE PROPHETIC
Addendum to Part 1
CLARIFICATION OF SUBMISSION
Prov 15:22 Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established. (KJV)

After publishing Part 1, I received some wise counsel regarding the subject of Submission. This is the result.

Scripture says we are to submit ourselves one to another - mutual submission (1 Peter 5:5). We are to show respect for our leaders and those in authority (Hebrews 13:17). Respect for others is still an important attribute of the true prophet. Even Paul showed respect to the office of High Priest, though he refused to back down on the message he had been given to speak, and though the high priest had just ordered him to be struck. (Acts 23:4-5). Much could be written about this subject, but the purpose here is to be as concise as possible.

There are times when the leadership of a body of believers will oppose the prophetic word. There are times when you, as a prophetic person, will be called upon by the Lord to bring a word of correction or reproof. No one enjoys this job! The reaction of the leadership is not your responsibility. It is your responsibility to give the word. It is important to stand on the word you have been given to speak, knowing WHOSE message it is. You may be criticized, called rebellious and disobedient, insulted, etc. Leadership may attempt to discredit you or manipulate you.

Part of the problem is church leadership's lack of understanding regarding mutual submission. Part is from not understanding the "teamwork" of the five-fold ministry (Ephesians 4:11-13). Part of the problem is lack of understanding, especially in America, of authority, both by those in authority, and those who are under authority. We are all under the authority of God.

You will be called upon by the Lord to forgive, not take offense, and intercede for those who have mistreated you. You will be called upon by the Lord to "touch not the Lord's anointed", as demonstrated by David's respect for Saul. It is not easy to be used in the prophetic, and the price is sometimes high and painful for your obedience.

Remember the heart of the Father and do not deviate from the word you have been given.

Posted - October 1, 2000
MORE ON DISCERNING THE PROPHETIC
by Nita Botzenmayer
The following principles are additional guidelines for discerning the true prophetic word.

AGREEMENT WITH GOD'S WORD

The Number One guideline in discerning a prophetic word: it will agree with God's recorded Word. God will never prophesy something that opposes His Word.

KNOW YOUR SCRIPTURE

Throughout these guidelines, you see the importance of knowing the Word of God. If you have questions about a word given, search the scriptures for confirmation. Use your knowledge of scripture to "test" the word for accuracy.

You cannot know too much scripture. You cannot study God's Word too much. Remember, Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus in the wilderness, but Jesus knew the "whole counsel of God", and defeated him with scripture (Matthew 4:1-11)!

The trick Satan used was to take a partial scripture and misapply it. It is important to know the "big picture" of scripture, so you won't be tripped up by one scripture taken out of context.

THE INNER WITNESS OF THE SPIRIT

With individual prophecies, determining if a word is accurate and "right on" may be more difficult, unless there is some obvious discrepancy with scripture. Some individual prophetic words are very specific and directional. Some are general and vague, and the interpretation and application may not be evident.

These directional words are potentially life-changing, very important to you and to God. So how do you tell if the word is right?

An accurate individual prophetic word given to you will give an "Inner Witness" by the Holy Spirit within. It will be a confirmation of something you already know in your spirit, even if you have not verbalized it yourself.

As another has said, if it is from the Lord, His Presence will accompany the words. You may even feel His manifest presence in the natural.

If you don't have an inner witness, but think it MAY be from the Lord, and it lines up with scripture, what do you do? Sometimes, the only way to tell is to "put the word on the shelf ", pray, and wait for the Lord to reveal it to you.

If the word causes confusion or distress of spirit, it is not from the Lord, as God is not a God of confusion. A word of correction, even if painful, will bear witness to the Spirit within, and your conviction and repentance will bring restoration and healing from the Lord. Do not confuse "Confusion" with the pain of facing the correction brought by the Lord to help you, and miss the word you need.

DON'T GO ON APPEARANCES

The appearance, gender, age, or other outward appearance of the person giving the word is not grounds to receive or reject it. You must weigh the word, not judge the giver of the word.

Speaking of John the Baptist, who wore rough clothing, ate a weird diet, and lived in the wilderness (strange appearance!):

Matt 11:7-11 As John's disciples were leaving, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: "What did you go out into the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind? If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings' palaces. Then what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written: "'I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.' I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (NIV)
From this scripture, we see that odd appearances cannot be a reason to receive or not receive a word from the Lord. Speaking of odd appearances, can you imagine what Jonah looked like to the Ninevites after spending 3 days in that whale?

It is also important to note that "he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he (John the Baptist)." This means God can use "baby" Christians as well as mature Christians, children, youth, old people, and everyone in between to speak His words of prophecy.

He requires obedience, not a certain appearance or age. I have had prophetic words given to me by children. I almost missed the word of the Lord because I looked at their youth instead of weighing the word given.

IS THIS WORD PROPHESYING TO MY FLESH?

Remember Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus. He will use it against you, too, if he can. If the word lines up with scripture, and sounds good, there is yet another question to ask: Is this word appealing to my flesh?

Example: A man I know had a word given to him promising a large financial blessing, which was supposed to occur within a certain period of time. He received this word joyfully, as it seemed scriptural, and he needed money at the time.

When this word did not come to pass by the appointed time, he became bitter toward God, until the Lord revealed to him that the word spoke only to his fleshly desires. It encouraged him to have faith in money and not in God.

This example does not mean God does not want to bless us financially. It just illustrates how the fleshly desire of greed was spoken to in that word, which caused the receiver to get out of focus with the Lord, and even get angry and bitter toward Him. It shows the subtlety the enemy will use to cause us to go astray.

Scripture says the flesh wars against the spirit (Romans 7:23). A word that appeals to the flesh should automatically be suspect, and carefully examined.

PRAYER

There is no substitute for prayer. The Lord does not play favorites. He speaks to each one of us. He is not insulted when you have questions. In fact, He delights that you ask Him FIRST! As part of your "test" of the words, it is good to submit them to the Lord in prayer.

WISDOM

Ask the Lord for His wisdom in how to receive, interpret or apply the word given to you, or if you are to receive the word at all.

James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. (NIV)

THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE FOR ERROR

In the Old Testament, a prophet was to be 100% accurate. If one word he spoke was not right, he was declared a false prophet. Thankfully, we are under the law of grace.

We are all human beings, subject to error. We are not sinless perfection. No matter how long we have been used of the Lord to prophesy, we may still "not hear right" occasionally. Our lives may be above reproach, and we still might "miss it".

Every word should be tested, regardless of the reputation of the prophetic voice giving it. A true prophet will not be insulted, he/she will rejoice that you are obeying the command in scripture to do so.

RESPONSIBILITY IN PROPHECY
by Pam Clark

http://www.prophetic.net/proresp.htm

We prophesy according to the proportion of our faith. (Romans 12:6)
A baby Christian may only know that one needs to accept Jesus to get saved and delivered from sins and that one needs to be baptized in water, and if that is the extent of their faith, with great accuracy, they may prophesy that to another person. If they know a little more about the basics of the Christian walk, they may be able to prophesy a little more in those areas.

A baby Christian who gets saved may have the office calling of prophet upon their lives, or the gift of prophecy desiring to come forth, but they still can only prophesy according to the measure of the faith they can stand in. It is highly unlikely they will prophesy the deeper truths of God on a regular basis without a more solid foundation.

There are times that God will give "words" to people to comfort, encourage and exhort them but these words are not to take or replace the directive authority of God in that person's life. Often, if someone has developed their Christian life in a way that brings forth good, strong and wonderful words, people want to lean on these people for their divine directives. They can't, because the Spirit of God desires interactive personal relationship with Him, not other human beings standing in His place.

Often people will revere their leaders, but then have a personal crisis when their leader fails or "misses it." Some get into contests as to who has the greater leader! This is not God's Plan!

There also seems to be a contest with some, as to "How accurate is that prophet?" I have heard prophets described in percentages, like a 50% or 70% or 100% prophet, as if there is such a thing. Of course we appreciate it when a person has a good and accurate word for our lives, and it can be very hard on us if we receive an insufficient, misunderstood or even false word. Accuracy of information is not always a sign the word is from God or even signs and wonders, because what matters is the fruit of Godly life.

People can be quick to label others false prophets on things that they do not understand. Some words can be spoken in a symbolic manner, or in the "Christianese" language, and a new believer may not have a clue as to what it means and may only be able to guess the meaning because of where they are in their understanding. Those prophecies can be misunderstood.

Sometimes people will prophesy future callings or ministries and the person doesn't have any idea the price that goes along with that ministry calling. Often timing is a factor that is not understood.

Some, sad to say, prophesy out of flesh desires, which is very common in this day of accepting the prophetic giftings, and therefore the words can be inaccurate or a mixture. If we put our faith in the prophecy more than the Word of God and Spirit of God, we likely will be disappointed.

When people compare prophets and prophecies as to their accuracy, they may not understand the symbolism, the timing, or the price to be paid, or even understand that some words are warnings meant to bring forth Godly repentance. (We have Jonah as that example.)

Romans 12:6-8 "Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness."

It is obvious from this passage that all of ministry carries a maturing and developing process.

1 Corinthians 13:8-10 "Charity [or Love] never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part [or in just a portion only] shall be done away."

All the gifts are to lead us to Jesus and into dynamic relationship with Him. All the gifts should be conforming us into His image and likeness before the Father. It becomes obvious that all the gifts need to carry a measure and portion of grace, too. Some people want to deny portions thinking the full portion will magically appear. It doesn't work that way! We need "the parts" and the process to make the whole!

False prophecies are designed to make you turn away from God. The enemy will also work to make the Christian misunderstand, as Jesus explained in the Parable of the Sower -- that he will come "immediately to steal the Word" that will help you, by confusing you or causing you not to discern it.

Another area where people misunderstand prophetic words is failing to understand the creative desires of God. If people are willing and obedient, God has a multitude of good ideas and plans to supplement our lives with His goodness and love. But not everyone is willing or will stay obedient, so these creative plans of God cannot come to full fruition. God may have a wonderful plan for a family but if members compromise, the good plan of God cannot come to pass as God would like to bless!

There is a Sovereign Plan of God where His principles and ultimate purposes will not fail. The flesh will get political with the gifts of God and seek its own or demonic power. But there is a Sovereign Plan of God that will endure beyond man's and Satan's plan and will promise, by the Incorruptible Seed deposited within when one has been born again, and through nurturing that Seed, will bring His good and perfect and sovereign will for you to pass for you.

You water and nurture that Seed for your maturity through prayer in your Spirit language and in your understanding, through putting the Word of God in your mind and heart, and through exercising your faith through good deeds and works. Just as tree trunks grow strong weathering storms, so will you become strong in your Spiritual life. As you mature, good fruit will come forth for you as well as others.

All the gifts, including the prophetic gifts, demand responsibility and understanding.

1 Th 5:19-22 "Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil."

Pam Clark Prophetic Ministries
PO Box 883 ~ Grandview, MO 64030-0883
Web Site:

http://www.prophetic.net

I, the Lord will hasten it in his time.... (Isaiah 60:22)

I have a time
in which I will manifest My power,
in which I will show forth My energy,
in which I will allow My purposes to be fulfilled.

You have become impatient,
You have become over-anxious,
You have tried to speed up the process.

But,
My thoughts are not your thoughts,
My ways are not your ways,
I know what is best for you.

I would have you surrender yourself to My Will.
My way is best.
My way is perfect.
There are no flaws or defects in my dealings.

I shall hasten it in My time.

When I arise, the work of the enemy will be scattered.
I will do a quick work in the earth.

Know this:
You need not be anxious.
You need not fret.
You need not worry.
I will soon intervene.
I will stand between you and the power of the enemy.

The wicked shall flee when no one is pursuing,
But the righteous shall be bold as lions.

In that day, you will say,
"Truly, the Lord does all things well.
This is His day.
This is His time."

You will rejoice that you have waited for Me.
You shall see My great deliverance.
I will hasten it in MY time.

My time is the perfect time.
It shall serve My purposes.
You will be joyful in it.

......I will hasten My word to perform it. (Jeremiah 1:12)

Prophetic Word from Dick Mills,
from "He Spoke and I was Strengthened"©

HAVING DREAMS AND VISIONS

http://www.prophetic.net/dreams.htm

To: pamclark@prophetic.net
Subject: Seer and dreams and visions
Hi Pam,

My name is J.S. and the Lord has called me to the Office of a Prophet.

I have had this calling and have been in processing since the age of 14. I am now 25 and the Lord is really bringing this calling out in my life.

I am writing because I am now going through a period of time in which I am experiencing numerous dreams and visions. Some of them have meaning and others do not.

I have them constantly. At any moment in which I doze off or am asleep, I will have a dream or a vision. What does this indicate? I am basically trying to get an understanding of why I am dreaming and having visions so much.

Response from Pam:

Hi J.S.,

Having dreams is a spiritual gift.

Some prophets are seer prophets which means they have a visual gift, whereas some prophets may have a more auditory type gift, meaning they "hear" in their heads. Many have a combination of that.

As a gift, dreams is like having the ability to draw or paint. You can use these skills for good or evil. Just because you ~could~ draw a wrong picture, doesn't mean you ~choose~ to, even if the ability to do so in all kinds of detail comes to your mind.

As in artistry, the more details you have in the gift, the more talented you are considered to be and many want to capitalize on that, including maybe yourself! I would say that God has given you a gift, with details, but also with opportunities to use it greatly for good or for evil.

Well, surely you might tell me, "I don't want to use this for evil!!!" Well then, how would you know? You would know because you would know what is right and wrong by the Word (or Scriptures) of God, the Holy Bible.

When people have spiritual gifts, including the prophetic gifts, they really need to work at being a good Christian first. Many do not want to hear this, because they want to exalt their gift more than honor Jesus. See, Jesus died on a horrible cross to pay the price for our sin, but if we don't choose to honor that, we can just go with the gift and exalt ourselves instead.

Many do not want to pay the price of a Godly and holy lifestyle. It's hard! It's challenging! But the fruits and rewards are worth it in many ways, and most of all because on the Judgment Day of all judgments, you will be glad to hear, "Well done My good and faithful servant, you pleased Me because you cared, enter into My eternal joys..." All carnal works will be burned with fire, as wood, hay and stubble is. And if people [souls] did not honor God, they will go the same way.

If you make a point to CHOOSE the Godly lifestyle, your gift will come out in you as a beautiful thing. People will SEE Jesus in you and you will rejoice with them when they do - because you will be sharing Him. This sharing is one of the greatest joys a believer can have. It's a gift and an honor to share Jesus in His Holiness.

Also, when you choose to live holy, you stand a much better chance at making right decisions in areas where you do not know the right answer and have not been trained. If you make an error on the side of Godliness, that Godliness will be seen and God will be honored and exalted.

The Scriptures say in the book of James 1:5 that we can ask God for wisdom and He will give it to us without upbraiding or fussing at us. That means when you are really trying to get it right, God will cover for you if you mess it up. That's a good deal! And it works.

As with all Spiritual gifts, you will come to see a pattern. Some things will stand out as things that work, other things will have problems. You will learn by that and then see how that your spiritual gifts are tools for doing the will of God, and not the ultimate end or reward for having a Christian life.

Power-seekers see the gifts as a reward for right living. The Godly see the Spiritual gifts as abilities for Christian living.

If the gifts are exalted, you will eventually see error. If Jesus is exalted, you will see His power revealed. And His power is the power that overcomes evil. Hey! That's what I want, because God is on the side of everyone overcoming the forces of sin and evil in this world. That is redemption and restoration and salvation.

I know of many who have shared with me having constant dreams, just as you have described, so don't feel alone. But you need to remember that the counterfiet of the prophetic is divination and familiar spirits. I don't say that to scare you, but to let you know that the best use of your spiritual gifts is a holy lifestyle. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and God loves wisdom and says in Proverbs that it is the principle (or first) thing.

Wisdom is good! Common sense is the companion of wisdom. With a solid foundation, the Spiritual gifts used in God will win the spiritual war that Satan wages against the people of God. God has given you the gifts (tools) as He sees fit and you are in training with them. He will allow you a space of time to get to know your tool and often will let you see the dangers of misapplied use. Pray against all wrong fruit or manifestations.

Also with dreams and in the prophetic, many things are symbolic. There are many books and "authorities" as to what means what. There are some of these "authorities" that I am not too sure about! One rule in Biblical studies is to let the Word interpret itself. In other words, if God uses symbolism for something, try to stick with that same symbolism and not go too far off on a tangent. One fruit of the Spirit is a sound (and reasonable) mind. (2 Timothy 1:7)

Just as in art and in life, you see the creativity of God so I am not trying to be super dogmatic or overly structured. When in the process of building, the Master Builder can add and subtract as He chooses until He declares the work done. Jesus said you will know a tree (and a tree is symbolic of people, and sometimes Israel in the Scriptures) by its fruit.

How do we know the fruit of God? He defines it in Galatians 5:22-23. "But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control, and against these there is [or God has no] Law [against them]." It is also righteous, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Bless you, J.S., as you go with God.

_________________________________________

God Bless You! from Pam Clark Prophetic Ministries

Visit our Web Site at

http://www.prophetic.net

JESUS LOVES YOU!!!

6. THE GOSPEL WILL BE PREACHED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."

This prophecy has already been fulfilled through television, radio, missionaries, the translation of the Bible into many languages, and the internet. People all over the world now hear the message of Christ from missionaries who have the means to travel the globe, and via technology that allows us to communicate with people on the other side of the world right from our own homes, churches and offices.

For the fulfillment of this prophecy, I expect to see the Islamic world be as open, at least for a time, to the Gospel as the former communist states of the old Soviet Union now are. Likewise for Communist China. It's not my sense that airwaves alone will suffice.

I'm inclined to agree with you about the airwaves.

Thanks much.

So I've learned.

The five fold office ministries should work together as a team. (I've noticed it's very hard to do because of the power of it which is resisted vehemently by the enemy.)

"A popular teaching in the compromised Pentecostal (neo-Pentecostal) and compromsied charismatic (Kenyonist and Kenyonist-contaminated) branch of the Church is that in these latter days God has restored the "Five-Fold Ministry." We will examine what is meant by this, its implications, and the reasons why this concept is wrong. "

Five Fold Fantasy

The following is an interesting dream from this site with an interpretation that rings rather true, to me from Bill Somers.

http://www.uq.net.au/daystar/dvl459.htm

Subject: Dream of Crash Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 13:43:13 -0700 (PDT) From: (nancy gaitan) To:

prophetic-school@XC.Org

Hi List,

A woman friend of mine recently had a dream from the Lord that seems to be a warning dream. We have talked about some parts we felt were personal for her. But she and I felt that there is a larger implication here, so after some prayer, I suggested putting it on the list for some feedback, and she agreed. The following is the dream in her own words.

I had a dream in which I was riding in an "old" car, there was an older man driving, and an older woman sitting next to him in the front seat. I was sitting in the back seat looking around. We were on a dirt road going up the north side of a mountain (in the dream the mountain was a mountain here called Konocti). I looked out of the window and on my left, I saw a large commercial plane. It was painted Red, White, and Blue (this part I believe is significant to the larger picture, as we live in a small rural community where there is not an airport for commercial airlines to land here ).

It seemed to be circling and getting lower and lower, all of a sudden I realized, the plane was going to CRASH into the side of the mountain! It was right over our heads now and I said to the older man who was traveling very slowly, to HURRY UP, and get out of there! All of a sudden the plane crashed into the side of the mountain. It was a very terrible crash.

Suddenly I was no longer in the old car, but on a bicycle by myself trying to get away, when I noticed a large group of people milling around the crash site. There were some news crews, T.V. people, cameras etc. they were all hanging around the crash.

I then started peddling as fast as I could to get as FAR AWAY from the crash as I could, when all of a sudden I looked behind me to the mountain where the plane had crashed, and there was a HUGE fiery explosion, that went miles into the air!! I said "Oh God, all of those people!! I then started peddling frantically knowing I had to get to higher ground, and put as much space as possible between myself and the explosion. The dream then ended.

A couple of items from the dream occurred to us. The commercial plane being painted Red, White, and Blue, would seem to signify America. The news media being present at the crash. We wondered if there might be a financial crash coming on the horizon? The older car and people she could relate to somethings she has been praying about, but wonders if they also have a larger significance. Anyway, please pray, and would appreciate any insight the Lord would give, especially for prayer and intercession.

Blessings Nancy

INTERPRETATION BY BILL SOMERS

The dreamer represents the prophetic element of the present church. While two old people driving the car, represent the present church leadership. They are in the drivers and navigators seats, and in control of things.

The fresh young prophetic people are represented by the rider stuck away in the back, suppressed and ignored. They are pursuing the things of God as best as they know how. This is shown in that they are driving up the north side of the mountain. [Let us go up to the mountain of the Lord. . . . Mt. Zion on the side of the north.]

The prophetic person can clearly see that the plane is going to crash, but the others cannot. The prophetic dreamer attempts to warn the driver of the crash, that time is short. [Come out of her my people.}

The plane crash of the USA, obviously, is an economic crash as suggested by the fact that it is a commercial plane, not a military one. Also as the mountain represents the things of God, the USA crashing into the mountain indicates a conflict between the course that the USA is on and the things of God.

The fact that after wards the dreamer in on a bicycle shows two things. A. After the crash, automotive transportation will be out of the picture. B, so will the old order in the church. The crash attracts much attention and commotion, but the prophetic person knows enough to flee the following judgment, whose description could well be that of a nuclear explosion, with it's mushroom cloud going miles into the air. This is signifying the judgment of nuclear war to follow the economic crash.

-- God Bless Y'all Bill Somers Email:

wsomers@bright.net

HomePage: End Time Prophetic Vision

http://www.do-you-love-me.org/wsomers/

The following is an interesting dream from this site with an interpretation that rings rather true, to me from Bill Somers.

What makes it "interesting" is that it says nothing. It's a self-justifying message. Anyone could have written this stuff.

Somewhere above--I think it was on this thread--was a . . . post about how an estimate was off the wall about 100 million dying from a bird flu. It was asserted that WHO's own figures were more in the 3-7 million range or some such.

The following EXCERPT from

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6608053/

disputes that and asserts that WHO's guesstimate is 20-50 million.

A WHO estimate last week that H5N1 could infect up to 30 percent of the world’s population and kill between two and seven million people was a conservative estimate, said Shigeru Omi, regional director of WHO’s Western Pacific Regional Office.

“The maximum range is more ... maybe 20 to 50 million people,” Omi said in a speech in Hong Kong.

“It will be incomparable to SARS,” he said, referring to the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome epidemic that killed 800 people around the world in 2003.