Biblical Innacuracies in THE PASSION

Way of Life ^ | 3/13/04 | David Cloud

[RaceBannon]

The Movie THE PASSION has caused quite a stir.

I cannot deny I was moved when I saw it, and even saw it twice.

However, the longer I am away from viewing it, the more I see things I agree don't agree with.

The letter below is acompilation of things about the Passion that show just how wrong Gibson got it.

I once claimed it was the most accurate Hollywood ever made. I now believe I was just moved by what I saw instead of comparing what the Bible actually said.

Originally, I thought most of what was not accurate, it was just artistic license, instead, what we see is this license is, is Gibson's showing aligns perfectly with extra-Biblical sources, totally non-Biblical.

[AAABEST]

All in all, it was an emotional experience, not a chance for spiritual enlightenment.

That's not true at all. Many thousands are for the first time in their life meditating on how Jesus was humiliated, tortured and executed for us. Thousands or even millions are either deepening their faith or experiencing Christianity (of all brands) for the first time in their lives.

Instead of using the logical mind and eyes that God gave to see the good, you're confusing imperfection for evil.

[viaveritasvita]

V3: >>>Well.....then the masses decided! It wouldn't have mattered who decided -- could have been Philip the coppersmith or Joe Six Pack -- the mission (God's plan of salvation) would have been accomplished -- it had to be accomplished for us to be reconciled to Him.<<<

Clarification: The masses would have had to include God's chosen people, Jews (and their priests and leaders) because the OT tells us that the Messiah would be rejected by His own.

Semper Fi

<><

[ET(end tyranny)]

God instructed the Israelites (the Hebrews, Jews) in the OT to sacrifice a pure, unblemished lamb to Him as an offering of atonement for their sins.

I'm not convinced that He did. I think it's very likely that the pagan practice of animal sacrifice was adopted by the Israelites while in Babylonian captivity.

Jeremiah 7
22   For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23   But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
24   But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

Micah 6
(6) 'Wherewith shall I come before YHWH, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before Him with burnt-offerings, with calves of a year old?
(7) Will YHWH be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?'
(8) It hath been told thee, O man, what is good, and what YHWH doth require of thee: only to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.

Since the author realizes that YHWH didn't want him to sacrifice his firstborn, the fruit of his body, for transgression of sin, why is it that people would think that YHWH would sacrifice His alledged firstborn 'Son'???

YHWH didn't approve of sacrificing one's offspring.

Leviticus 20
2   Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
3   And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
4   And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
5   Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

Molech from the Hebrew
4432 Molek mo'-lek from 4427; Molek (i.e. king), the chief deity of the Ammonites:--Molech. Compare 4445.
Molech = "king"
1) the god of the Ammonites and Phoenicians to whom some Israelites sacrificed their infants in the valley of Hinnom

Deuteronomy 12
(31) Thou shalt not do so unto YHWH thy God; for every abomination to YHWH, which He hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters do they burn in the fire to their gods.

Deuteronomy 18
(10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, one that useth divination, a soothsayer, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer,
(11) or a charmer, or one that consulteth a ghost or a familiar spirit, or a necromancer.
(12) For whosoever doeth these things is an abomination unto YHWH; and because of these abominations YHWH thy God is driving them out from before thee.

Throughout the Bible this kind of sacrifice is hated by God.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mark 12
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

Psalm 51
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

1 Samuel 15:22
And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Hosea 6
6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. 

Hosea 3
4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

Hosea 14
2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips. Sacrifices were to be replaced with PRAYER!  I think sacrifices never were meant to have occured. jmo  What is gained by killing an innocent animal?  

YHWH tells us that he doesn't want sacrifice, Yehoshua tells us that he doesn't want sacrifice  

Even IF..... that's a big IF... a human sacrifice were required, which I highly doubt since YHWH is clear about the abhorence of that practice, but IF it was required...

Leviticus 22
24   Ye shall not offer unto the LORD that which is bruised, or crushed, or broken, or cut; neither shall ye make any offering thereof in your land.

Matthew 27  (as well as Mark 15:15, John 19:1)
26   Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

Yehoshua was physically abused, bloody, cut and bruised.  

Having said that though, YHWH and Yehoshua both say that they didn't want sacrifice.  Yehoshua tells us that he came to bring sinners to repentance.
He preached repentance, telling people to keep the commandments of YHWH and warning them that the Kingdom of YHWH was at hand.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Sorry 'friend'... I answered your question.****

I told you I thought your answer wasn't clear. I asked for a simple yes or no - is that too much to ask?

***By not answering my questions you are not having an exchange with me. You don't want to talk with me, you want to talk AT me***

Untrue. I am very much intrigued by you and I do want to talk with you more and hear your opinion and discover what it is that caused you to leave Christianity.

***Forget it. Either answer my questions, which you've been ignoring, as I answered yours or our chat is done.***

Ok, I'll answer you, but I've always had every intention of answering you. If I found out that "if you were shown that Yehoshua was a false god, could you give up the mark of the beast"

Yes, of course, how could I follow anything I know to be untrue? I don't believe Jesus would want me to follow anything I know to be a lie. "and that no lie is of the truth."

Where does your hostility come from?

***I think you are aware that when Yehoshua said to the thief that 'today you will be in Paradise with me' (paraphrase) that that did NOT happen. Yehoshua didn't ascend to YHWH, our Father THAT day. Remember he was to spend 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb?????***

The godly people in the Old Testament, when they died, where did they go? Based on the scriptures we know that they couldn't go to heaven (the third heaven) to be in God's presence because they were not perfect, "yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect"

So they must have been somewhere else. Not Hell, because they were God's people and not destined for the flames. Another place - called Paradise, or Abraham's Bosom. That is where the thief on the cross went - to join the rest of the OT saints - and it is where he saw Jesus, after the crucifixion.

Jesus then visited these souls and proclaimed to them the good news! It seems at this point he then lead this mighty host to the hightest heaven and to the throne of God because as the veil of the temple on earth had been torn in two, so the veil of the temple of heaven had also been torn in two, and those previously kept out were left in. He also decended into hell.

***Remember he was to spend 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb?????***

And his physical body did, in fact, spend three nights in the tomb - just as he said. "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

***Sorry 'friend'... ***

You know, I do consider you my friend. We've come across each other several times now, and though we disagree, I wouldn't consider you an enemy.

Now, I know your going to think I'm dense, but I'm still not clear on your answer to my question. Could you give me a simple yes or no?

[nmh]

Some will never get it. They need to add and subtract at will since another mere mortal instructs them otherwise to what "is written". Once upon a time I got annoyed at how many times the phrase "it is written" is IN the Bible. Now I see ... God tried hard to get people to view HIS Word and take it to heart and still ... the spiritually discerned completely ignore it and prefer to place THEIR will over HIS will. They will refer to everything else but what God says in the Bible for validation.
A counterfeit religion ALWAYS must guide eyes AWAY from the Bible, since truth is OFFENSIVE to their beliefs and you will ONLY find truth in the Bible. Perfection doesn't make mistakes. It is mere fallible mortals that make mistakes and lie. God doesn't.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***A counterfeit religion ALWAYS must guide eyes AWAY from the Bible, ***

Very good point.


"Whoever despises the word brings destruction on himself,
but he who reveres the commandment will be rewarded."

[Ethan_Allen]

I am intrigued by the question regarding the verse 'this day you will reside with me in paradise'. I am also intrigued that this refers to 'Abraham's bosom' and the rest of what you said. I will have to come back and study that. Thanks!

I never used to understand that phrase myself, since we know Jesus descended into hell first. It wasn't until I really began to understand that Jesus IS God, that it was God Himself who took on human flesh by the virgin Mary, and that it was JESUS who in fact wrestled with Jacob and gave him the name Israel (which means 'contend with God', 'El' meaning 'God'), that I understood how the thief could reside with Jesus in paradise at the same time that Jesus was in Hell. It is because Jesus was the fleshly manifestation of the God who is a huge spirit above the heavens, whose earth is His footstool, whom nobody could see or else they would die. If this glorious being could become a 'man' that could wrestle with another man, and name him Israel after Himself (either that, or Jacob was mistaken or worse, a liar, and then the whole Bible is a lie), then surely he could be in two places again at the same time. He IS God, after all. My favorite explanation of this is the following article:

Jesus is God http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pentecostal/One-Ch4.htm It came off another site entitled the Oneness of God. Maybe that site can help others who are struggling with this. I think this is the URL, although I am at my limit with 47 windows and can't double-check: http://www.thunderministries.com/Messianic/Oneness.html

I just a few minutes ago ran across another site along these lines, and am about to check it out further because it looks very promising as an evangelical tool, even geared for children. Maybe you could check it out some time when you get a chance, and see what you think:
Is Jesus Christ a man or is He God? http://christiananswers.net/kids/ednk-jesusgodorman.html It also has an interesting look at 'The Passion': http://christiananswers.net/gospel/passionofchrist.html

One more thing. Maybe you already know this. According to Justin Martyr, so-called because after searching for God in all the wrong places (the philosophers, and the 'masters' of 'widom, knowledge, and understanding'), he met a man(?) who led him to Jesus Christ, and he was later put to death for his belief. He lived early enough to know that the Jews changed some of the scriptures, and there were still some early writings in the synagogue that showed this. For instance, they removed from Jeremiah that Jesus was to descend into hell [to preach to the captives?] When I first read that, I wasn't sure why they wanted to omit it. But a little later, when I myself finally realized the truth of what Jesus meant about the thief residing with Him in Paradise THAT DAY, I wondered if it was because the Jews ALSO realized that this would reveal the divinity of Christ. There were other things they changed as well, one of them having to do with the cross, and I don't remember exactly what that was. This thread is kind of analagous to the discussion Justin had with the Jewish man Trypho. It is a fascinating article, very lengthy, and incredibly insightful. I recommend it HIGHLY. I have the URL because I have some excerpts printed out: http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-48.htm There is more at the link at the bottom of that page. (i.e., ...-45, ....-46, ....-47, etc?. I have not read all of them yet, but fully intend to.)

Keep up your kind work. I hope I din't offend anyone.

[John 8:58-59 Jesus reveals Himself as God in 3 persons.]

[OLD REGGIE]

"IF... you found out that Jesus Christ was in fact who he claimed to be, I.E. Son of God, Messiah and Savior of the world, would you be willing to accept him and your Lord and Savior as such and confess him before the world?"

Good question. (you might wish to reconsider the phraseology of your question) Speaking for myself, the answer is "yes" I would accept Jesus at his word. In so doing I would also accept Him as what He claimed for himself the Son of God.

A question for you:

If you found out Jesus never claimed to be God would you continue to insist He is?

[Ethan_Allen]

Provoking thought. Maybe He never claimed to be God, because His purpose for coming to earth, was to draw all men back to God THE FATHER?. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr015.html#25 to verse 28.

[OLD REGGIE]

So you faith is based on a 15th century secular rulers demands for divorce and the rewritten to support those demands "Bible".

"...the rewritten to support those demands "Bible"."

You wouldn't deliberately make false claims would you? Please show where the KJV was changed to support divorce.

Parallel verses from the Douay-Rheims and the KJV would be fine with me.

[OLD REGGIE]

But as I said before, the danger is that they mistake the emotion generated by the movie for a religious experience. Then they're off following a rabbit trail to a dead end for who knows how long.

Right on.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Is Jesus Christ a man or is He God? http://christiananswers.net/kids/ednk-jesusgodorman.html It also has an interesting look at 'The Passion'***


Thanks for the urls! Don't miss the other site www.christiananswers.com - very valuable.

*** http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-48.htm There is more at the link at the bottom of that page. (i.e., ...-45, ....-46, ....-47, etc?. I have not read all of them yet, but fully intend to.) ***

I love ccel.org! What a resource that man has made.

***I hope I din't offend anyone***

No way. Look forward to talking with you.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Speaking for myself, the answer is "yes" I would accept Jesus at his word***

Are you speaking hypothetically or should I read this to mean that you haven't yet done so?

***If you found out Jesus never claimed to be God would you continue to insist He is?***

Hypothetically I would have to say yes, but I know what I've seen of Jesus and to deny it would be a bit like me answering in the affirmative to the question "If you found out that you don't exits would you believe it?"

[OLD REGGIE]

Are you speaking hypothetically or should I read this to mean that you haven't yet done so?

I do not accept the Trinity. I believe Jesus when he claims to be the Son of God, when He speaks of God as His Father.

Also, Jesus never made the claim He was God.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***I do not accept the Trinity***

Do you accept the New Testament as the inspired, authoritative, inerrant Word of God?

[Ethan_Allen]

'Jesus never made the claim He was God.'

otoh, I contradicted myself!

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jhn/8/58.html

Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn014.html#8
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jhn/14/9.html

Sorry; stupid me.

[Ethan_Allen]

Sorry I missed your reply. At first glance I thought it was my post.

I WILL check out christiananswers.COM ; I am making notes because my windows are full, and I'm out of ink. Thanks!

So you DO know ccel.org, better than I it sounds like. I ran across the Justin Martyr articles a couple of years ago, and read some of it (although I skipped over most of the part about his instruction from the 'man'. I now have to wonder if the 'man' was an angel sent by God, or Jesus Himself, since Justin came away from that meeting with such an astounding understanding of the Scriptures! It took me off-and-on three days to go through -48. I spent a lot of time in-between checking what Justin said against the Bible, and just thinking. I want to read it over again, and also to find more time to go through all of the other articles.)

I just ran across two more articles on the christiananswers.net site, and I want to go through them as well. So much to read; I just wish I had MORE TIME!

If Jesus is God, how could he die? If Jesus died on the cross, then how can he be alive today? http://christiananswers.net/kids/ednk-jesusalive.html

RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
How many times did Jesus appear after his death and resurrection?

Eleven different appearances of our risen Lord are recorded in the New Testament...
http://christiananswers.net/dictionary/resurrectionofchrist.html

Regarding the title of this thread, maybe it's all for a purpose. Look what is happening. People are searching the Word for Truth. I hope this is God's plan for a PEACEFUL way to bring fulfillment to the New Covenant promise [ http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jer/Jer031.html#31 TO V. 34 ]:

Jer 31:34 AND THEY SHALL TEACH NO MORE EVERY MAN HIS NEIGHBOUR, AND EVERY MAN HIS BROTHER, SAYING, KNOW THE LORD: FOR THEY SHALL **ALL** KNOW ME, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jer/31/34.html

[Ethan_Allen]

To All:

JUSTIFICATION [faith vs. works]
http://christiananswers.net/dictionary/justification.html

[OLD REGGIE]

Did Jesus claim to be "One with the Father"? Yes.

John 10:
[30] I and the Father are one."

And He prayed to His Father the same for you.

John 17:
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
[22] The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,

Did he claim to exist before Abraham? Yes.

John 17:
[5] and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.

Jesus claims to be first after the Father.

[OLD REGGIE]

Do you accept the New Testament as the inspired, authoritative, inerrant Word of God?

Which New Testament? Copies of copies of copies .... of copies with inherent copying errors? No. I accept it as "sufficiently" correct.