Posted on 02/24/2004 12:46:27 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
Rebecca Hagelin asks, "Can you handle the Truth?" in today's, WorldNetDaily. "If you only go to the movies to be entertained, don't go see The Passion of the Christ," she said, adding "but if you want to experience an artistic achievement beyond any scale you could imagine, you must see The Passion of the Christ.
If the portrayal of death and suffering are now, "an artistic achievement beyond any scale you could imagine," Sadam Hussein and the Taliban have been greatly misjudge. They were only misunderstood artists. Instead of having our stomachs turned at the images of Taliban atrocities and Sadam's sadistic tortures we should be exulting in these images of such artistic importance.
The only real difference between glorying in the portrayal of suffering and death in Gibson's film, or the actual images of its modern day counterpart, is that Gibson's is a fake. That does not deter the superstitious masses who hold suffering, pain, and death as their highest ideals, however. It is what their God, whom they believe condemns the vast majority of mankind to eternal torment and suffering, teaches them. Of all the things one might place a value on, the thing their God values above all others is suffering and death.
Of all the things their God might have accepted as payment for man's salvation, it was not Jesus' healing the sick, or feeding the hungry, that was valued. Their God would settle for nothing less than the most excruciating pain, pointless suffering, and agonizing death possible as "payment." What kind of God places such a high premium on such evil?
Rebecca describing the experience of 5000 people who watched the film, said, "We were not entertained. We did not laugh. We did not leave relaxed." In other words, they did not enjoy the film, they suffered it. Rebecca regards suffering a virtue. She said about her discomfort watching the film, "the flogging scene didn't end quickly ... so why should it end quickly for me as a mere observer?"
Because, Rebecca, suffering is evil. Pain and death are not virtues, they are the opposite of all human life is about. The purpose of life is not to pain and anguish, the purpose of life is joy and happiness.
We have no doubt, Rebecca is correct to say, "The Passion is powerful – it is reality," because the world is full of suffering and brutality, made possible by the very kind of perverted psychology that not only accepts suffering, but positively worships it.
Hank
All of the denominations whose fundametal teachings come from Augustine (Catholic, Calvinist, Arminian, that is, Reformed, Lutheran, Methodist, most Baptists, etc.) believe the majority of mankind is bound for eterneal torment. "...for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat."
The Eastern traditions also hold this view, but do not follow Augustine.
So, what do you believe?
Hank
Bull. Another bigoted anti-Christian hit piece. Nothing more.
This anti-Christian drivel does not belong in the Religion forum. How about the News forum, or the Smokey back room, along with the rest of the bigoted anti-Christian baiting and bashing associated with this film?
A good place to begin would be the first chapter of John Piper's book "The Passion of Jesus Christ", which can be read online here.
This chapter is but the first of 50 (each only 2 pages long) telling us of the God ordained purposes for which Christ suffered and died.
Hank, you really do need to repent and believe. I will be praying for you.
Not true, friend.
Riiiight, unlike the atheistic societies that have only managed to kill untold millions in an effort to advance their idologyand theology of materialistic humanism. Pain and suffering is not a product of Christianity, it is a product of rejecting Christianity, ask a North Korean.
Such twaddle from the "bright" people.
Suffering does not pay for anything. a commentary from the east is here.
There's some profoundly shallow stuff in there, and it doesn't take a Christian perspective to arrive at that conclusion. Take this whopper line:
Pain and death are not virtues, they are the opposite of all human life is about. The purpose of life is not to pain and anguish, the purpose of life is joy and happiness.
Almost as deep as the Teletubbies, that. But at least they seem to recognize that now and then you fall down and go boom without ascribing it to evil, or wailing at the cosmos that their life's purpose is being thwarted.
It's not exactly a Christian discovery that good and virtue are frequently paired with the enduring of pain and suffering. Considering the way everyone of us comes into the world, that shouldn't come as a surprise to even the most secular minded.
So if you'd like to seriously uphold the apparent contention of this article, that suffering equals evil, you're going to have to broaden the debate well beyond Christianity, let alone whatever flavor of it I happen to practice. It's a bizarre assertion that requires a bit more to support it than comparison to various religious beliefs you find unsavory.
Of course, I don't automatically assume you agree with the article. But, if your intention was merely to spark debate, you'll have to forgive me if I don't find it a very serious launching pad into theological inquiry.
Neither the article nor the author seem to demonstrate understanding of some rather basic elements of Christian theology. Instead they pick and choose things out of context in an attempt to portray Christians in a particularly unfavorable light. It reminds me more of the ancient Roman claim that Christians were canibals, because they believed they ate the body of their man/God. It takes more work to unwind that sort of claim than it deserves. So unless you're threatening to release the lions, I'll pass.
What kind of God places such a high premium on such evil?
A good point. Why was it necessary for Christ to suffer so horribly? I have thought about this and come up with a few ideas. Perhaps we should consider persecution as a possible fate for ourselves in following Him. Perhaps His behavior during persecution was a lesson for us, in how to respond. Perhaps we needed the constant reminder of how much evil is present in our world.
Sadly, I think that's getting closer and closer. Right now it's at the level of "pyschic pain" - that is, being ridiculed and insulted by high and low alike. But I suspect that more serious persecutions are on the way, probably starting with things like faithful, orthodox churches losing their tax exemption for opposing gay "marriage," etc. It will be incremental, until we're all the way illegal.
But maybe I'm just feeling apocalyptic and gloomy today because it's raining here...
I live outside of Seattle. Liberal city. I work with people who dislike me because I wear a cross around my neck. I have to deal with them.
I have actually considered not wearing the cross because of the hate I have endured about it. Then I thought to myself, "What am I thinking?".
Why assume my comments are born of 'ego"?
This is a hit piece. Like other Catholic activists, I call it as it is. Some are called to suffer quietly, others to bear the sword and defend Christ's church. Neither has the right to denigrate the calling of the other.
Apologetics with ATTITUDE!
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The Few, The PROUD, The Church Militant.
Simply, God has a sense of justice that must be satisfied one way or another. He hates our sin so much that only bloodshed can atone for it. But because He also loves us, He was willing to shed His own Son's blood instead of ours.
That's basic Christian theology -- if you don't understand it, then you have no grasp of Christianity.
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