We Must Fight the Evil Indians

10-3-03

[KellyAdmirer]

Table dancer? LOL

[Chad Fairbanks]

They do pay direct fees - they pay into a statewide emergency services fund, the general fund, a fund for non-gaming tribes, they pay for road work on state highways and roads if a casino wil increase traffic, they pay for any infrastructure california needs to upgrade/build if a casino effects it, etc... then, they pay all the other fees that business pay PLUS a fee per slot machine etc...

This is in addition to any taxes etc... However, any money earmarked as "tribal" money, which goes to support the tribal government and reservation infrastructure is not taxed. That seems fair to me...

And if the state wants to renegotiate for expanded gaming, and negotiate for more fees, I support that.

[bicycle thug]

We have a new casino going in near me in Florence, Oregon. The opposition's core group are fixed income retirees who moved there into newly created gated communities to take advantage of the natural beauty of the area, the lack of a sales tax and because they have more spending power then where they came from.

I have followed that one closely. Close enough I took the trouble to listen in on rank and file community members at their favorite watering hole cafes in that town when they talked of this issue.

Too much of their comments were based on hatred of a class of people for my comfort, to say the least. I studied the treatment of Indians historically in these United States. What I read torments me to this day.

Casinos give badly needed capital to tribes suffering from the worst sort of dispirited poverty there is. One could argue there is better ways to help out people of cultures indigenous to here before Western culture came, but I doubt they would ever will be implemented.

We lost a treasure of very rich cultures in the slaughter of the mindset of "Manifest Destiny." Their wisdom and histories that took centuries to develop, and we are the poorer for it.

In many ways, casinos are but a bone thrown to Indians for that they lost over the last five hundred years of hegemony they were at the wrong end of.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Heh. ;0) My people's form of government was one of the influences for the Constitutional Republic we all enjoy today - The Iroquoian Confederacy (AKA the Five Nations)...

[Xenalyte]

Si, si . . . I started as Wrestles in Pudding, and then moved up to be called Gyrates for Wampum.

[Chad Fairbanks]

I agree... excellent summation.

[annyokie]

A+Bert has a little firewater problem, as well.

[bootyist-monk]

The Indians went 68-94. They already took themselves out of the game.

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for the comments, but I believe you knew where you were coming from and didn't clearly reveal that to me. Give me a few more words so I'll know exactly what you were trying to say.

[GladesGuru]

Have you considered the Constitutional barriers to allowing race to be an accepted reason to grant financial advantages - correction, make that a financial monopoly - to an American? What makes them any sort of "special" citizen?

Please be so kind as to restrict your answer (if any is forthcoming) to the Constitutional justification for granting Indians such monopoly status?

[kingu]

They do pay direct fees - they pay into a statewide emergency services fund, the general fund, a fund for non-gaming tribes, they pay for road work on state highways and roads if a casino wil increase traffic, they pay for any infrastructure california needs to upgrade/build if a casino effects it, etc... then, they pay all the other fees that business pay PLUS a fee per slot machine etc...

Ugh, the reality of all of this is that some of your statements are technically correct. Initial fees per machine went to a statewide emergency fund, with no further contributions required. No fees whatsoever go to the state general fund. Yes, some of the yearly fees go to county governments, but only after the majority is taken out to give to non gaming (under 350 machines) tribes. Yes, they pay fees (see previous) for infrastructure, however, in San Diego, for example, it isn't even a hundredth of what the county has paid for infrastructure improvements. Casinos have no profit, they are taxed 100 percent by the tribe, so no, they do not pay the same taxes that every other business does.

The state-tribal compacts suck in that they never dealt with the impacts of these casinos. Yes, I know, 40,000 jobs, plus the billions in building contracts, etc, has a huge impact on the state economy. But have they paid their fair share? Not even close. Do they make selective donations to try to reduce the impact? Yup, they do - only thing is that we didn't elect them to make such decisions.

[KellyAdmirer]

I agree with that. I have my own personal Native American associations myself. I will note, though, that many "Indian" casinos are run by anything but or by people who are 1/32 Native American or whatever, and the actual benefit to the community is largely a mirage. To give those folks special breaks when the business is as profitable as it is already seems a trifle like overkill.

[GladesGuru]

Nice numbers, Chad - but it appears that you begged the question. Why sould the Indians receive any special status?

[DoughtyOne]

Once again, you keep mentioning fees that Indian gaming concerns pay in other states, but fail to address the issue of them paying direct fees to the state in addition for healthcare, schools and other items. Here you did alude to that stating that you supported the state renegotiating additional fees. I agree with you there.

I think it should be reasonable. I'm not looking to soak anyone. Frankly, I'd rather see our state get it's fiscal house in order so it could drasticly reduce all fees, those to the Indian tribes as well.

[John Lenin]

Hey chief, there's two things that certain in life, death and taxes.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Actually, Indians have a 'special status' because our status is constitutionally-based. If you have a problem with it, get the constitution amended.

If you support the Constitution, then you shuld support Tribes as sovereign, dependent nations within a nation. It really is that simple.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Well, perhaps the state should have negotiated better. Maybe next time around, you will.


That being said, the state (as far as I know) doesn't fund schools or healthcare on the reservation, so why should the reverse be true? ;0)

[Zevonismymuse]

You are mistaken. We are fourth generation Santa Ynezians, not people getting second hand gossip from friends. Two of my best friends have shown me the financial disclosures from their divorces. I have also seen bancrupcy notification/financial disclosure forms sent to a friend of mine by one of the tribal members. For the last couple of years the stipend has increased to $30,000 per month. Since the new Chumash Resort opened, the stipend has increased to $50,000.

[John Jorsett]

I'm rambling. I'm just suspicious of the premise that the influence of Indian casinos, since their operations are legal, is any different ethically than any other interest group.

Being legal doesn't mean it's a good idea to let them run amok in the legislature. That bill to give them virtual veto rights over all development in the state is an example of the dangers of permitting unbridled power to a single group like this. We barely dodged that bullet this time, but it'll be back, probably in an even more malignant form the way the driver's license bill was.

I think what ought to happen is California legalizing gambling for non-Indian groups as well, only make the non-Indian ones regulated and taxed. Even with a disadvantage like being taxed and regulated, I think more people would go to a regulated establishment rather than take chances on an unregulated one. I've never gone to an Indian casino because nobody is watching them to make sure they're on the up and up. I wouldn't have the same concerns for a regulated establishment. I suspect a lot of people are like me, and non-Indian casinos would flourish, cutting down on the income, power, and influence of the Indians.

[tallhappy]

A+Bert has a little firewater problem, as well.

One would expect nothing more from you. Sad you are.