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Ready to move? Free State Project will announce the chosen state on October 1
Free State Project ^ | Sep., 03 | Free State Project

Posted on 09/20/2003 4:18:54 PM PDT by churchillbuff

The ballots have been mailed to Free State Project participants - and the voting result will be announced on October 1.

The Free State Project is a plan in which 20,000 or more liberty-oriented people will move to a single state of the U.S., where they may work within the political system to reduce the size and scope of government. The success of the Free State Project would likely entail reductions in burdensome taxation and regulation, reforms in state and local law, an end to federal mandates, and a restoration of constitutional federalism, demonstrating the benefits of liberty to the rest of the nation and the world.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: freedom; freestateproject; fsp; porcupines
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I still don't understand why Nevada reportedly isn't in the running.
1 posted on 09/20/2003 4:18:54 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff
These are the states under consideration (see http://www.freestateproject.org/statereports.htm, with links to advocacy papers for each one):

Alaska
Delaware
Idaho
Maine
Montana
New Hampshire
North Dakota
South Dakota
Vermont
Wyoming
2 posted on 09/20/2003 4:22:50 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff
I still don't understand why Nevada reportedly isn't in the running.

Maybe because the FedGov owns more of Nevada than the state of Nevada does?

3 posted on 09/20/2003 4:22:57 PM PDT by LibKill (Father Darwin has a sense of humor but no mercy whatsoever.)
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To: churchillbuff
Well, I found the explanation of why NV has been ruled out:

Nevada Report
by Anita L. Joule

Nevada can be a fun place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. It offers ample opportunities to indulge in guns, gambling, and girls. One would think that a state with legalized gambling and prostitution would be extremely liberty oriented. This however is not the case in many areas that FSP members would be interested in.

Homeschooling Regulations

One area of concern is the hostile homeschooling regulations. For a child to be legally exempted from compulsory attendance in a government (public) school, the parent may seek a waiver of attendance by submitting a ÒNotification of Intent to Provide Home InstructionÓ form. This form must be accompanied by Òevidence to the local school district that their child will be receiving appropriate instruction at home.Ó The following criteria are considered evidence of qualification for providing "appropriate instruction.Ó

1. A teacher, other than the parent, who possesses a NV teaching license OR;
2. The parent, when a parent qualifies for a teaching license for the grade level to be taught OR;
3. The parent, in consultation with a person who possesses a teaching license or who has provided instruction in the home for the grade level to be taught for at least three years OR;
4. The parent, when the child is enrolled in an approved (licensed by the state board) correspondence program.

Drug Laws

Another area of concern for many is the fairly strict marijuana regulations. It has been said that you can get falling down drunk, frequent the whore houses, and lose all you money in the casinos, but let them find a single marijuana seed in your ashtray and its off to jail you go.

Fortunately there has been some progress in this area. According to NORML, the decriminalization of marijuana in Nevada has begun. ÒThe state has decriminalized marijuana to some degree. Typically, decriminalization means no prison time or criminal record for first-time possession of a small amount for personal consumption. The conduct is treated like a minor traffic violation.Ó There has also been progress in medical marijuana legislation in Nevada. For Nevadans, Òthe law removes state-level criminal penalties on the use, possession and cultivation of marijuana by patients who have 'written documentation' from their physician that marijuana may alleviate his or her condition.Ó

Even so, the fines for misdemeanor marijuana violation are fairly high and subsequent violations result in increasingly harsh fines and eventual incarceration. This however, applies only to adults, age 21 and older. Those who are under 21 years and possess less than 1 oz on their first or second offense, will be found guilty of a felony, punishable by one to four years of incarceration. Additionally, anyone found in possession of paraphernalia is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a $1,000 fine and 6 months in jail and paraphernalia sale is a felony punishable by a fine of $5,000 and 1-4 years in jail.

Demographics

Nevada State Demographer estimates the state population at 2,066,831 indicating that NevadaÕs population has passed the limit originally set for our target states. NevadaÕs population growth over the past decade makes it the fastest growing state in the nation. Population increase estimates for 2010 would place the total statewide population at approximately 2,710,000 far exceeding our population limits for the project.

This leads to another obvious concern, employment in Nevada. As reported by the U.S. Department of Labor, Nevada ranks 33rd among the states with a jobless rate of 5.5 percent. The 1.1 percent annual job growth pitted against the projected average population growth of 2.6%. An influx of 20,000 unexpected and unforeseen new residents flooding into the state could spell disaster for Nevada as well as the FSP.

Taxation

In 1981, Nevada switched from a property-tax based system, to one based on gaming and sales taxes. But those tax revenues are highly susceptible to economic downturns -- a problem some classify as a structural defect that will result in a $1.2 billion deficit in coming years.

The Nevada Task Force on Tax Policy, created by the Legislature when the 2001 session ended without any major proposals to address the state's economic shortfall that currently sits at $270 million, is readying a recommendation that is expected to propose:

Creating a broad-based business tax.
Increasing the current cap on how much property tax a local government can charge.
Expanding what's covered under the sales tax.
Increasing Òsin taxesÓ such as those on cigarettes and alcohol.
Increasing certain fees businesses pay and possibly ask voters to approve a lottery.
However, the Legislature and Gov. Guinn worry that increased taxes will ruin what makes Nevada attractive to so many newcomers.

Pro-business Nevada has a constitutional prohibition on income taxes. The state does not tax the income of its corporations or its state's citizens. A Nevada corporation is also not subject to any other hidden taxes such as franchise taxes, capital stock taxes, or inventory taxes. Sales tax applies only to products sold within the state.


Selected Taxes Common to Many of the 50 States But Not Nevada Type of Tax Number of States Using
Franchise 26
Corporate Income 46
Personal Income 44
Special Intangible 10
Capital Stock 2
Admissions 36
Excise 16


Because Nevada has no state income tax, and because Nevada does not keep much information on their own residents or their corporations, it has steadfastly refused IRS requests for reciprocity. Most other states freely exchange all of the information they have on every resident and corporation.

Incorporation

Nevada has developed a corporate structure that is unique. Nevada began with corporate statutes based on DelawareÕs and then went further, establishing a corporate structure that allows investors and owners of Nevada corporations to remain completely private. Since these changes in Nevada's statutes came into effect in 1991 the number of new incorporations in Nevada has exploded.

To ensure privacy, Nevada is the only state that allows its corporations to use bearer stock certificates. It is virtually impossible to prove the ownership of a Nevada corporation handled in this manner. Since the state does not require a corporation to list with it the corporation's vice-president(s), a vice-president utilizing bearer shares can have complete control and ownership while remaining anonymous.

Health Care

Currently Nevada is experiencing a medical crisis caused by the withdrawal of the largest medical malpractice carrier from the Nevada malpractice insurance market. The company, which had covered 60 percent of the stateÕs doctors, cited large malpractice awards. NevadaÕs only top-level trauma center closed for 10 days earlier this month in Las Vegas after 58 orthopedic doctors temporarily quit. Legislators are considering a number of proposals.

Nuclear Waste

President Bush formally approved Nevada's Yucca Mountain as the nation's high-level nuclear waste dump on 7/24/02, ending a 20-year political fight and shifting the battle to the courts. "Our best chance in defeating Yucca Mountain is in the federal courts, where impartial judges will hear the factual and scientific arguments as to why Yucca Mountain is not a safe place to store this nation's high-level nuclear waste," said Nevada's Republican governor. Bush hopes the move will pave the way for more nuclear energy production. Government planners have set a 2010 opening date, but the General Accounting Office has said the target cannot be met.

Conclusion

All in all, I would not rank Nevada very high as a choice for the Free State Project. There are a number of huge problems that would need to be addressed and frankly given the large percent of federal land, the projected population increases, the unemployment rate, and the nuclear waste project, not to mention the lack of water, poor soil, and extreme heat I do not believe we should waste our time with further consideration of this state.

July 28, 2002

The views expressed in this article do not necessarily represent those of the Free State Project, its Officers, or Directors.


4 posted on 09/20/2003 4:24:45 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: LibKill
I found a report (previous link) that says the marijuana laws are too strict in NV. Gosh, that doesn't bother me - - my idea of freedom is low taxes, and NV is right-on on that score. Hope the free staters don't get diverted by secondary issues.
5 posted on 09/20/2003 4:26:13 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: archy
ping
6 posted on 09/20/2003 4:31:27 PM PDT by jmc813 (Check out the FR Big Brother 4 thread! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/943368/posts)
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To: churchillbuff
I found a report (previous link) that says the marijuana laws are too strict in NV. Gosh, that doesn't bother me - - my idea of freedom is low taxes, and NV is right-on on that score. Hope the free staters don't get diverted by secondary issues.

Nah. The real problem is that the FedGov owns most of Nevada.

This comes from a Nevada State webpage.

7 posted on 09/20/2003 4:34:25 PM PDT by LibKill (Father Darwin has a sense of humor but no mercy whatsoever.)
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To: churchillbuff
I moved from NYC to Las Vegas and it's like night and day. The analysis that was posted is on balance correct but draws poor conclusions in some cases.

For example, it's easy to find a job in LV. The idea that new residents are outpacing jobs was a sloppy conclusion based on very limited thinking.

For example, it didn't factor in retirees, who flock to relocate to LV because of the nice weather and low cost of living. They are not in the work force.

Also, if a small family of 4 moves into town, 2 of which are job-force age, often only one of the 4 will work (one homemaker, 2 children, and breadwinner). The analysis above doesn't even pretend to factor that into the equasion. Sloppy.

As for MJ laws, that's no big deal to me - I agree it should be contraband. Taxes are low in NV, and quality of life is good.

I made a good move here. I do not regret it at all. ;-)
8 posted on 09/20/2003 4:36:55 PM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: HitmanNY
In one year we'll be high-tailing it out of NY. Pennsylvania has been our top pick but I'm willing to take a closer look at Delaware.
10 posted on 09/20/2003 5:02:56 PM PDT by katnip
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To: churchillbuff
Why not Texas?
11 posted on 09/20/2003 5:05:24 PM PDT by austingirl
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To: austingirl
Part of the premise of this project is that the population of the target state must be sufficiently small that the stated 20,000 project participants will be able to affect the political balance of that state. Texas is just too big, given the parameters (lovely state though it is, of course!)
12 posted on 09/20/2003 5:13:38 PM PDT by SAJ
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To: SAJ
We could use some reinforcements in Austin, which is so very liberal, but I see your point.
13 posted on 09/20/2003 5:15:08 PM PDT by austingirl
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: austingirl
Austin? Liberal? I'm shocked, shocked... (g!)

Actually, that sociopolitical result has tended to happen whenever the state capital and the home of a (major) state university are the same city, or even next door (as in the case of Lansing MI, and E. Lansing (MSU)). For other reasons, too, certainly, but the correlation for this pair is 100%, if I'm not mistaken (not certain about Columbus, OH, but I'll bet Columbus-area FReepers could bring me right up to speed on that (w!)).

FReegards!

15 posted on 09/20/2003 5:28:14 PM PDT by SAJ
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To: churchillbuff
Isn't Delaware an odd inclusion? I always though it was very populous like the rest of the east coast. I guess I am wrong.
16 posted on 09/20/2003 5:36:59 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: churchillbuff
20,000 may be enough to take over a moderately sized county, but not a state.
17 posted on 09/20/2003 6:04:29 PM PDT by SCHROLL
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To: churchillbuff
Freedom is freedom and government oppression is oppression. I don't use anything stronger than coffee myself but laws against vegetables are silly, expensive, wasteful and are diametrically opposed to the concept of freedom I hold dear which is that I get to decide how I live my life so long as I don't cause harm to others.

Drug laws are morally wrong and I object to being forced to support them.

18 posted on 09/20/2003 6:06:50 PM PDT by muir_redwoods
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To: LibKill
Maybe because the FedGov owns more of Nevada than the state of Nevada does?

Yup, 97% of the land is owned by the federal government. Additionally, the state government is owned by the gaming industry and a large percentage of the population is working for that industry.

19 posted on 09/20/2003 6:24:27 PM PDT by SSN558 (Be on the lookout for Black White-Supremacists)
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To: Ditter
Isn't Delaware an odd inclusion? I always though it was very populous like the rest of the east coast.

This site^ says the pop. of DE is 807K.

20 posted on 09/20/2003 6:29:37 PM PDT by upchuck (The Palis are a bunch of wackos with a 14th Century mentality and 20th Century toys. Kill 'em.)
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To: upchuck
Hit the trail for Wyoming.More cows than people, cows probably smarter also. Burn up in the Summer, freeze to the ground in the winter.

I am glad to see that Nevada has been removed from the running, the last thing we need is 20,000 people.

We had to open 26 new schools in Las Vegas this year, and we don't need any more people. Perion..
21 posted on 09/20/2003 7:40:34 PM PDT by BooBoo1000
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To: austingirl
"Why not Texas?"

Cause in 30 years it will be part of Mexico again. Just kidding...I hope.
22 posted on 09/20/2003 8:31:19 PM PDT by XRdsRev
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To: churchillbuff
You might want to keep this to yourselfs you may end up with about a million Californians fleeing the Grey Davis reign of terror.
23 posted on 09/20/2003 8:45:51 PM PDT by edchambers
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To: BooBoo1000
the taxes are low, so is cost of living. expect more people to move there, like it or not
24 posted on 09/20/2003 9:09:01 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: austingirl
Please don't suggest TX. There are a bunch of FReepers meeting there right if "The Anti-Christ" Clinton is elected President. We will then secede from the Union. We don't want anyone taking over before we get there.

P.S. You are invited!
25 posted on 09/21/2003 12:03:20 PM PDT by netmilsmom (I got "Treason" from the Library today-was bought 9/3- Think libs are ruling the book list?)
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To: netmilsmom
Please don't suggest TX. There are a bunch of FReepers meeting there right if "The Anti-Christ" Clinton is elected President. We will then secede from the Union. We don't want anyone taking over before we get there. P.S. You are invited!

Good, because that's just what I'm thinking. I love Kentucky, but I won't live under her rule.

26 posted on 09/21/2003 12:30:58 PM PDT by kimmie7 (Terri's story must be told to the masses. Pray with us for this woman and her family.)
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To: kimmie7
I have to go back and see who the FReeper is that invited us. Netmilsdad, the girls and I get the loft. I'm sure there is a place for you and yours there. Netmilsdad is networking all the outbuildings together so we can have our own intranet! It will be a party!
27 posted on 09/21/2003 12:35:39 PM PDT by netmilsmom (I got "Treason" from the Library today-was bought 9/3- Think libs are ruling the book list?)
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To: netmilsmom
Hey, I'm a good cook, can sew and clean, my dh can do just about anything mechanical - except move his shoes to the bedroom when he takes them off - and my son can talk non-stop for 23 hours! We've got a lot to offer! LOL
28 posted on 09/21/2003 12:53:33 PM PDT by kimmie7 (Terri's story must be told to the masses. Pray with us for this woman and her family.)
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bump for later
29 posted on 09/21/2003 12:57:08 PM PDT by Museum Twenty (Proud supporter of President George W. Bush.)
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To: kimmie7
If you can sew, you're better than me!
30 posted on 09/21/2003 2:33:48 PM PDT by netmilsmom (I got "Treason" from the Library today-was bought 9/3- Think libs are ruling the book list?)
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To: churchillbuff
Who the heck are these 20k brave souls? And who's funding this?
31 posted on 09/21/2003 2:37:32 PM PDT by maxwell (Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation...)
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To: churchillbuff
>announce the chosen state


32 posted on 09/21/2003 2:41:35 PM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: churchillbuff
dont think a ballot's being mailed to me, but i hope it's delaware. nice beaches.
33 posted on 09/22/2003 5:48:54 AM PDT by 1john2 3and4 ( at ONE with my duality)
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To: William Creel
I agree, choose VT. The progressive mayor of Burlington Peter Clavelle recently announced he will run for Governor as a Democrat to replace Republican Jim Douglas, successor to Howard Dean.
34 posted on 09/22/2003 5:54:04 AM PDT by Dusty Rose
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To: churchillbuff
To ensure privacy, Nevada is the only state that allows its corporations to use bearer stock certificates. It is virtually impossible to prove the ownership of a Nevada corporation handled in this manner. Since the state does not require a corporation to list with it the corporation's vice-president(s), a vice-president utilizing bearer shares can have complete control and ownership while remaining anonymous.

Now those radio ads make sense. Bearer instruments are a good way to decouple from the 'matrix'.

35 posted on 09/22/2003 6:14:44 AM PDT by StriperSniper (The slippery slope is getting steeper.)
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To: StriperSniper
>Bearer instruments are a good way to decouple from the 'matrix'

Yes, Hans thought he could
"de-couple from the matrix"
using bearer bonds...

36 posted on 09/22/2003 7:13:26 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: churchillbuff
As soon as the State is selected, there will be a townhall meeting at the largest Dennys in the State. Half the people will boycott the meeting 'cause it's statist, and the other half will be too stoned to make it.
37 posted on 09/22/2003 8:35:04 AM PDT by Wheee The People
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To: netmilsmom; kimmie7
I hope that America is not so far gone down the path of socialism that the hildebeast is actually electable - but if it happens, I can't live under her dominion either.
38 posted on 09/22/2003 10:58:51 AM PDT by austingirl
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To: churchillbuff
They are all cold weather states.......
39 posted on 09/22/2003 11:02:33 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: austingirl
I seriously doubt Hillery will run since most will go to the polls who have not voted in years just to vote no.
40 posted on 09/22/2003 11:09:51 AM PDT by Orange1998
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To: Joe Hadenuf
They are all cold weather states.......

Not a selling point, you're right.

41 posted on 09/22/2003 1:20:45 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: Joe Hadenuf
They are all cold weather states.......

BUMP to that.

It ain't freedom if you're forced to get frostbit to get it.

42 posted on 09/22/2003 1:30:40 PM PDT by putupon (I'll put a Cross for the Constitution beside the Highway of History, if the Court will let it stay.)
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To: putupon
These people are stupid. If I was going to pick a state and be a cheerleader for bringing people into it, to change it to a conservative state, it would be a state with the best weather, where you don't freeze your butt off 5 months out a the year, a coast, ports, a place where food can be grown year around etc etc etc.....
43 posted on 09/22/2003 2:28:17 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Joe Hadenuf
These people are stupid. If I was going to pick a state and be a cheerleader for bringing people into it, to change it to a conservative state, it would be a state with the best weather, where you don't freeze your butt off 5 months out a the year, a coast, ports, a place where food can be grown year around etc etc etc.....

You only make yourself look silly with a post like this. Why do you think your ideal state hasn't been choosen? Its because everyone else though that state was ideal too and already moved there. The populations in these ideal states are already too high and therefore can't be changed politically by a few thousand free-staters. However, the weather in Delaware isn't nearly as bad as the frozen wastelands of NH, AK, and VT.

44 posted on 09/22/2003 4:59:41 PM PDT by rmmcdaniell
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To: austingirl
Why not Texas?

Looks to me like they only picked places where they will be up to their a$$ in snow much of the year.

45 posted on 09/22/2003 5:03:34 PM PDT by HoustonCurmudgeon (PEACE - Through Superior Firepower)
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To: rmmcdaniell
Why do you think your ideal state hasn't been choosen?

Because most konservatives run at the first sign of trouble, only to find it waiting for them where ever they go.

The populations in these ideal states are already too high and therefore can't be changed politically by a few thousand free-staters.

So you are saying a few thousands free staters are going to change Delaware? Don't be silly!

However, the weather in Delaware isn't nearly as bad as the frozen wastelands of NH, AK, and VT.

LOL, compared to where I'm sitting, Delaware's climate resembles that of a climatically hostile, frozen world....No offense though.....

46 posted on 09/22/2003 6:09:06 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Joe Hadenuf
So you are saying a few thousands free staters are going to change Delaware? Don't be silly!

I pointed this out on another thread, that they wouldn't even be able to do this. However my point is not to agree with them, rather I'm trying to explain to you why they're putting a higher priority on a small population state than one that has good weather. If you don't understand this than perhaps you should just shut up instead of calling others stupid in your posts.

47 posted on 09/23/2003 7:35:06 PM PDT by rmmcdaniell
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Delaware is packed to the gills north of the C&D canal, almost much like NJ (if you don't believe me, go look at a street map showing the PA/DE state line...it's striking). You'd need 100,000 people to shift it from the liberal stronghold it is. If they pick DE, the project's DOA...trust me.
48 posted on 09/23/2003 7:41:22 PM PDT by Windcatcher
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To: rmmcdaniell
If you don't understand this than perhaps you should just shut up instead of calling others stupid in your posts.

But you shouldn't use such language daniell! I am offended, I am calling the Admin Moderator, as soon as I eat another pork chop.....

:o

49 posted on 09/23/2003 7:48:07 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: churchillbuff; AAABEST; A.J.Armitage; archy; bc2; Beck_isright; Jack Black; bootless; ...
The FSP Press release regarding the election result announcement can be found *here.* I've also placed a link in the responces to that post to this one.

Porcupine list ping!


50 posted on 09/24/2003 10:30:52 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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