Lesbians, Transgendered, and Queers—Oh, My!

http://www.gospelcom.net/hsc/articles/LesbiansOhMy.php | Aug. 7, 2003 | Rev. Dr. R. C. Sproul, Jr.

[AnalogReigns]

This is the watershed issue? Think again.
Unlike the rest of the evangelical world, I am not all aflutter while waiting for the Episcopals to decide. I have friends, all strong opponents of sodomy, who are on both sides of the issue. Some desperately hope that sense will prevail, and the bishopric won’t be handed over to Reverend Lightinhisloafers. What a tragedy, after all, to see this old and honored denomination sink to such depths.

On the other side of the aisle are my friends who want to see the man don a pink mitre. The feeling from these folks is that when this happens, finally all our friends who have stuck it out in the ECUSA all these years will take a walk. The horror of a sodomite sitting in authority will shake up the bushes, and every good man, woman, and child will flee like so many old-money rats escaping a sinking yacht.

A pox on both their houses. What does it say about so-called “evangelicals”, whether inside or outside the ECUSA, whether rooting for or against the installation, that they are more concerned about what perversions the man practices in the dark than they are about the perversions preached from pulpits all across the denomination? When the denomination is dominated by those who deny the deity and resurrection of Christ, what difference does it make if some of them like to be dominated?

It was the same with the President. Conservatives of all stripes kept insisting that character matters. And I agree. But the real problem with President Clinton wasn’t what he was doing in the hallway outside the Oval Office, but was with the legislation he was signing in the Oval Office. The problem isn’t that he is a philanderer, but that he is a socialist.

I’m not arguing that shameful “private” behavior doesn’t matter. I am arguing that there is something wrong when it takes precedence over public acts of shame. I don’t want, in the evangelical fold, either a denomination that says, “Deny the deity all you want, but keep your pants on,” nor a bunch of priests and parishioners who reason the same way. If you won’t leave over heresy, but will over sodomy, your god is middle class morality. And he can neither save the church, nor you.

[AnalogReigns]

From a noteable "take no prisoners" evangelical thinker (son of the more famous R.C. Sproul)...

Sorry if the title and tone offends some...but being "nice" isn't always loving.

I couldn't agree with R.C. more.

[martin_fierro]

Some desperately hope that ... the bishopric won’t be handed over to Reverend Lightinhisloafers

NAAAAH ... too easy.

[aardvark1]

Don't apologize...it's right on the mark.

[saint]

Well put, and about time someone said it.

If it's offensive, so be it.

[mountaineer]

Excellent, thanks for posting this.

[xsmommy]

ping.

[LiteKeeper]

AMEN and SPOTREP!

[lupie]

If you won’t leave over heresy, but will over sodomy, your god is middle class morality. And he can neither save the church, nor you.

Very well said. It sums up my feelings on the subject in ways I couldn't articulate. Thank you for posting this.

In Jesus alone,
Andra

[onyx]

Where does he preach?

[AnalogReigns]

PING... fyi

[AnalogReigns]

A place called St. Peter's Presbyterian Church, (way over in) Bristol, Virginia. Also runs a thing called the "Highlands Study Center." http://www.gospelcom.net/hsc/

R.C. is kind of a wild man... and a great guy.

[dirtboy]

What does it say about so-called “evangelicals”, whether inside or outside the ECUSA, whether rooting for or against the installation, that they are more concerned about what perversions the man practices in the dark than they are about the perversions preached from pulpits all across the denomination? When the denomination is dominated by those who deny the deity and resurrection of Christ, what difference does it make if some of them like to be dominated?

It was the same with the President. Conservatives of all stripes kept insisting that character matters. And I agree. But the real problem with President Clinton wasn’t what he was doing in the hallway outside the Oval Office, but was with the legislation he was signing in the Oval Office. The problem isn’t that he is a philanderer, but that he is a socialist.

I think you're erecting something of a strawman here, as most conservatives I know saw how Clinton's moral deparavity and his political depravity were interconnected - and those who pretended that his moral depravity didn't matter eventually got an education in the end with Clinton's pardons and his looting of the White House.

Likewise, someone who is a deviant in the closet will be more receptive to deviate from Scripture in the pulpit.

[headsonpikes]

"...your god is middle-class morality."

He shoots, he scores!

[onyx]

Thank you for the info! He sure can write, so I'll bet he can really preach!

[AnalogReigns]

For almost 100 years the mainline denominations, including especially the Episcopaleans, have tolerated openly heretical views amoung their clergy and bishops. Because there's a lot of local autonomy, as long as conservatives didn't have a Bishop Spong preaching to them, and they were still able to sing the old hymns, it's been tolerated.

Now some of the same people who tolerated openly apostate views from the pulpit are fighting tooth and nail the results of such views...namely a complete melt-down on sexual morality in the mainline denominations. By waiting to fight the symptoms, not the disease, both conservative episcopaleans, and I believe, political conservatives have missed the mark.

Just last night I was talking to a lower level Bush appointee who was defending the vast (non-defense or 9/11 related) increases in spending for the federal government. When I said he was defending the increase in socialism, he hotly defended himself... saying somehow it will create a "permanent Republican majority," I guess so they can spend their energies in the future reigning in what W's administration began.... For the life of me I just don't understand.

[dirtboy]

Just last night I was talking to a lower level Bush appointee who was defending the vast (non-defense or 9/11 related) increases in spending for the federal government. When I said he was defending the increase in socialism, he hotly defended himself... saying somehow it will create a "permanent Republican majority," I guess so they can spend their energies in the future reigning in what W's administration began.... For the life of me I just don't understand.

However, there are many conservatives who were opposed to Clinton's policies, were also highly concerned about his moral deficiencies, saw that the two were connected ... and now vehemently dislike the massive non-defense spending increases that Bush is promoting. So don't lump everyone together, there are a tremendous number of gradations in this area.

[ChewedGum]

Exactumundo. The whole GBLT issue pales in comparison to the one he raises!

Gum

[AnalogReigns]

I agree with you basically...I was one who wasn't surprised by Monica...and thought there were many worse things Clinton did--particularly to the country, than that affair.

R.C. is, however, kind of a prophet--that is not one who predicts the future, but is extreme in trying to wake people up to what God has said in his word. He also considers America to be very socialistic...and socialism as evil since in its core being a deification of the state--and many Christian conservatives as guilty of syncretism...looking to the real God PLUS the false god of government for hope...

[secret garden]

Sproul raises an excellent point but there are many Episcopalians who have been clueless about the heresies emanating from other pulpits. Another poster mentioned the independence of the churches which is what allows so many to be unaware of the bizarre preachings that go on in other places. However, I see this issue as having the potential to be the straw that broke the camel's back, precisely because it was such a public battle with extensive media coverage. In that sense, it will open many eyes to the other discrepancies with Scripture that some of the authority figures have been proclaiming. As Martha would say, that's a good thing.
It's also been said that Episcopalians will embrace any heresy to avoid a schism. Let's hope that's not the case this time around. Right is on our side.

[Rytwyng]

"People frequently call socialism a religion. It is indeed the religion of self-deification" -- Ludwig von Mises