Agents can't force illegal immigrants to pick up

The Sierra Vista Herald ^ | August 12, 2003 | Bill Hess

[King Prout]

I *adore* your answer.
Your non-answer, actually.
It was so illustrative.

[moehoward]

Pssssst. King, don't feed the monkeys.

[King Prout]

hrmn?

[jimt]

Why are all you border jockeys so hypocritical?

Maybe they're taking a page from the playbook of the Bush/Ashcroft "Justice" Department.

[PRND21]

Does that make it right?
Disregard for the law is illegal in all cases, not just when "they" do something illegal.

[King Prout]

You seem to think that legality is the be-all end-all of justice, and that all lawbreakers are wrong.
Can we then safely extrapolate from your sentiments expressed here and elsewhere that you would condemn those who in the south violated countless laws regarding fugitive slaves when for moral reasons and compelling justice they helped said fugitives escape bondage and servitude?
The law is one thing.
Justice is quite another, and a higher thing altogether.
Or do you, as it seems, disagree?

[PRND21]

You seem to think that legality is the be-all end-all of justice, and that all lawbreakers are wrong.

They are in the eyes of the law, and that's what we're talking about.

If you must write three unanswered posts in a row explaining why you don't "care" about me, don't follow it up with a question where you try to sound smart.

[grania]

You can justify it all you want, but you are calling for an illegal activity to protest another illegal activity.

It's the US way. The governmnet is doing something totally in opposition to what is best for the country by not stopping the invasion. Was throwing the tea in the harbor legal at the Boston Tea Party? But it sure did make a point.

If that trash is removed from the border, and placed in the front yards of the politicians that let this outrage occur, fine!! Let them live with what people along the border put up with every day. Do you think any jury would convict them of anything?

The illegal activity that causes the situation is the US government not doing its job, which is protecting our borders. Let those who think it's such a good idea live with the trash.

[King Prout]

nice misrepresentation of the facts.
*yawn*
If you crave respect, try addressing the points on the table.

[King Prout]

Interesting points made here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/963025/posts?page=48#48

[novacation]

uh-huh How's the weather in Mexicali now? Hope you're not too hot.

[Imagine]

(COPY AND DISTRIBUTE WIDELY: start a movement, print a petition, start a political party, confront your legislators, write letters, post posters, drop leaflets, demand, demand, demand.)

18 POINT ACTION PLAN: Border Violators

1) Close all US borders to illegal entry forthwith by any and all means possible, including military presence.

2) Maintain legitimate immigration levels at modest annual level with requirements that immigrants be employable or sufficiently wealthy for self-support if they do not intend to work, proficient in basic English and willing to be assimilated into American culture and language. All applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples.

3) Legal immigration shall be awarded to individuals on a lottery basis, wherein all countries are given equal status in the immigration lottery, without regards to color or economic plight of originating nation.

4) Individuals of Islamic faith (muslims) from any country shall be denied immigration privileges or entry into the US. Christians and Jews from muslim countries fleeing religious persecution shall receive accelerated immigration privileges.

5) Detain all border violators, taking photos, prints and DNA samples of said violator while at the same time, checking for out standing warrants. If no warrants are outstanding, return border violators to home country within 20 days via commercial airline and submit cost of such action, including processing and housing costs for said violator, to country of origin. If costs are not paid within 30 days, reduce any and all aid to said country by a like amount.

6) Should any country from which a border violator originates not currently receive any aid from the US, the Justice Department shall be authorized to seize or secure liens on assets owned, managed or registered to that country to the full extent of the obligation.

7) Establish new Guest Worker Visa (GWV) category, renewable every 6 months, for unskilled labor positions wherein all applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples. Work permitted of such applicants shall be limited to one of several categories, including childcare, lawn/gardening, restaurant staff, cleaning and the like. Families of GWV workers are not permitted to enter US, nor will the birth of a child to one of GWV status confer citizenship to either parent or child.

8) Any violation of civil or criminal laws shall result in the forfeiture of the GWV and immediate return to originating country.

9) GWV holders shall be prohibited from claiming unemployment benefits, welfare support or free medical service.

10) The originating country of all GWV holders shall be responsible for any uninsured loss caused by the GWV, including emergency medical claims and/or claims resulting from illegal actions committed while in the US.

11) Companies who hire GWV holders shall submit to the Immigration Dept the name and GWV number of that individual, along with a description of employment tasks. Companies shall be subject to fines and penalty that fail to report employment of GWV workers, or hire border violators. GWV workers shall be paid with check, having income tax withheld. GWV workers shall not be subject to unemployment tax because they are not eligible to receive unemployment compensation.

12) Border violators, or any non-citizen not possessing a valid visa, detained by local police for any reason shall be turned over to border control officials for immediate deportation action, except if they face criminal charges in other jurisdictions.

13) GWV workers shall be prohibited for voting in local, state and federal elections.

14) Border Violators shall NOT be afforded the rights enjoyed by American citizens, as guaranteed under the constitution.

15) Public education (at institutions supported by taxpayer dollars) at any level (pre-school, kindergarten through the university level,) shall NOT be available to Border Violators (or children of Border Violators) and schools that enroll such individuals shall be subject to penalties.

16) Foreign Students (F/S) (individuals admitted to the U.S. for the purpose of attending any educational facility,) private institution or public (i.e. supported by taxpayer dollars,) must have valid student visas, such visas being in force only if the F/S attends school full-time. F/S shall be required to pay tuition, housing and related costs such that all their educational costs are fully reimbursed to the institution attended. The originating country shall pay for any and all loss caused by students while on U.S. soil.

17) Border Violators seeking emergency medical treatment shall provide pictures, fingerprints and DNA samples along with country of origin, and shall be treated, then incarcerated until information provided can be verified. Originating country shall bear the costs of medical treatment and confinement.

18) Children born in the U.S. to border violators, illegal aliens or of foreign nationals in the U.S. for any reason (including temporary visitor, school or work visas,) shall not be eligible for citizenship as circumstances of birth, nor shall the parents or parent’s family members (relatives) be conferred U.S. citizenship as a result of such births.

[PRND21]

I say, make the boarder where No one can get accross except at legal crossings. No if's, No butt's, no way in Hell !!!!

That's alot of land, sea and sky...good idea, though.

[PRND21]

How's the weather in Mexicali now? Hope you're not too hot.

L.A. is always perfect...Sunday was a bit hot, though.

[PRND21]

Do you think any jury would convict them of anything?

Wow. Go, as you said, put trash on the White House steps...see you on the news.

[Proud_texan]

"you assume calling the authorities to deal with a problem will "solve" the problem."

Your observations reminds me of my grandfather. When I asked him (he was born in 1899, died a few years back) if there was more violence, etc. these days he say nah, but what had changed was law enforcement.

He said in 1910-40's rural Texas it was pretty much standard for the sheriff to show up at a murder and ask (if he didn't know the deceased) was "did he need killin'".

If the assembled crowd agreed that he did, well, it pretty much ended right there...

[grania]

Let me try it this way. I think you're blaming the victims. The victims are US citizens whose lives have been negatively impacted by the invasion...our jobs, our culture, our neighborhoods have all been impacted. And why? Because our "leaders" choose corporate profit as a higher priority than is our quality of life. And in their ranches, and gated neighborhoods, and mini-mansions, it just isn't their problem.

Well, dumping trash at their residences would send a powerful message. That message is "look at what we put up with, while you're isolated from the problem". The protestors aren't the cause of any such protest...those that didn't stop the situation are. If people protest this outrage, no way are they as guilty as those who don't respect US citizens and values, yet pretend to represent us.

--------

Back in the summer of '68, I went along on a march when Cesear Chavez and some of his UFW members had organized a protest against low wages and horrible work conditions, to throw grapes into Boston Harbor. Some of us more cynical types asked some questions:

"Why don't the Mexicans just go home, grow grapes, and demand higher wages there?" Answer...because Mexican employers wouldn't pay them and they were just demanding a little less than what US employers were used to paying before they could hire cheaper migrant labor.

"But haven't you cost US citizens jobs by working for less and stopped the natural US drive to innovate to solve problems?" Answer...these jobs are so horrible that no US citizen would do them, and there could never be an innovation that would pick grapes or lettuce cheaply.

If you care so much about the US and its tradition of fair play for workers, shouldn't you be home advocating in your country, instead of whining in ours?" Answer: Some cynical, pathetic, condescending lecture about how us rich folks (I wasn't rich by any means) just didn't understand their plight.

That was the day I became a committed social conservative, convinced that if we didn't defend our culture, values, and jobs from people too lazy or pathetic to change their own homelands we, as a country, were doomed.

----------------

On the day of the candlelight vigil protesting the rush to war, a few of us went to Plymouth Rock. It seemed appropriate to go there, to say people had lots of questions about why Iraq now. Well over 100 people showed up. We thought about our country's history, its traditions, and its acceptance of all people. We thought about how unjustly the natives were treated at times. This was our right, freedom of speech and expression. Nobody stopped us, or arrested us, or said we were the problem. It's the US way.

So don't blame those who want to make sure our leaders see the trash. If they won't go to the borders to see it for themselves, someone will just have to bring it to them.

[PRND21]

I think you're blaming the victims.

Nope. You dump that garbage yet?