Posted on 07/27/2003 5:08:19 PM PDT by thatdewd
Edited on 05/07/2004 6:46:56 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
The writer is a circuit judge who lives in Kuttawa, Ky.
KUTTAWA, Ky. - The Courier Journal, at the behest of its columnist John David Dyche, has called for the removal of the Jefferson Davis statue in the rotunda of the Kentucky State Capitol. Such a supposedly politically correct viewpoint reflects a shallow, selective and even hypocritical understanding of history.
(Excerpt) Read more at courier-journal.com ...
So, I said to the Voice in the sky, "Is there anything you can do for Non-Seq? He says he just wants to get rid of that music, he will accept anything else."
And the Voice spaketh, and said, "Non-Sequitur, is this true?"
And Non-Sequitur responded, "Yes, Marse Voice, anything, just no more Disco Duck!"
And the Voice spaketh, "Very well." And the nauseating noise stopped.
And famous flames appeared around Non-Sequitur.
And the Voice said "Non-Sequitur, you will be in the likeness of James Brown."
And instantly Non-Sequitur looked just like James Brown.
And then the Famous Flames had instruments and began to lay down a really funky groove. And Non-Seq began to slide and shimmy and spin. He dropped to his knees and popped back up, and screamed "Get Back" and then "Hit me." The groove grabbed hold of him and, with all the soul he could muster, Non-Seq began to sing, "Say it Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud!" "Get Back!" "Can I get a witness?"
While Non-seq got down and got funky, I asked the Voice, "What did you do to the brother?"
The Voice explained, "The brother already had rhythm, I gave him some soul! But that is only the half of it. You wait and watch. So he won't get boring I fixed him so he will not just do the same thing over and over. Wait just a minute."
And it came to pass that James, I mean Non-Sequitur, began to change, and the music faded and a new song began to play. It was Fleetwood Mac playing "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow." Not bad, I thought. And the new Non-Seq began to talk in rhyme and and to chant, and then his chant grew loud and carried across the landscape, "Keep hope alive! Keep hope alive! Keep hope alive!"
I just looked at Non-Sequitur and said, "Amen, Brother!"
As I watched him, I wondered what Non-Sequitur would be like with the words of Abraham Lincoln spewing forth from his pie hole. Perhaps the brother could do it in rhyming chant.
I think that you all need to get a life, and quit living in the past. And how is this breaking news?
You wish.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you have jumped onto the Enloe paternity bandwagon but let me make your day and point out that, in fact, there are about 16 different individuals who various authors have claimed to actually be Lincoln's father. Among these are such notables as John C. Calhoun, Henry Clay, and Patrick Henry. Others claim that Lincoln's father was Jewish and I'm mildly surprised that you hadn't jumped on that theory instead.
Abraham Enloe lived in North Carolina. Records place Nancy Hanks in Kentucky as early as 1806 and Lincoln was born in 1809. Oral accounts place her in Kentucky as early as 1804. In order for Enloe to have been Lincoln's father, the theory ays that Licoln was actually born in 1804. That ignores the inconvenient fact that Lincoln had an older sister born in 1807. If she was really older then she must have been born in North Carolina, too, according to the Enloe legend. Was Enloe also the father of Sarah? If born in 1807, Sarah would in fact be younger than Abe. Assuming Sarah was born in 1807, and was therefore younger than Abraham according to the Enloe legend, all subsequent information about Sarah is up in the air. She married Aaron Grigsby while living in Indiana with her family in 1828 when Abe was yet 19. If the Enloe story be true then he would have really been 24. One would think that the difference between 19 and 24 would have been obvious, yet it is not commented on. The earliest record existing of something written by Lincoln is dated 1824 and consists of his writing in a homemade school assignment book. If born in 1804, he would be 20 years old at the time of the writings as opposed to 15 years old. Although open to debate, it seems far more likely that Lincoln was 15 and attending school in 1824 rather than 20 years old. Lincoln did not attend school at the age of 20 or, at least, there are no claims that he was still in school at age 20. When the Lincolns left Indiana and moved to Illinois in 1830, Abraham Lincoln helped his parents locate near Decatur, Illinois. He then proceeded to strike out on his own winding up in New Salem. This date is important because it represents his becoming 21 years old, the age of majority, and no longer under legal obligation to his father. If born in 1804, he would have been 26 years old, five years past his age of majority. A little bit puzzling, considering the times.
But hey, keep up the good work on the Enloe thing. It's up to your usual standards, and if it makes you happy then go for it.
Indeed, I hope that someone can. I would be interested in seeing the passage in context, along with any other references to Limber's relationship with the Davis family.
Spaketh?
Say it loud, he's dumb and he's proud! Adopt the little pup and housebreak him. He is a special breed. He's a putz.
Jefferson Davis was a putz?
Federalist 46
The federal and State governments are in fact but different agents and trustees of the people, constituted with different powers, and designed for different purposes. The adversaries of the Constitution seem to have lost sight of the people altogether in their reasonings on this subject; and to have viewed these different establishments, not only as mutual rivals and enemies, but as uncontrolled by any common superior in their efforts to usurp the authorities of each other. These gentlemen must here be reminded of their error. They must be told that the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone, and that it will not depend merely on the comparative ambition or address of the different governments, whether either, or which of them, will be able to enlarge its sphere of jurisdiction at the expense of the other. Truth, no less than decency, requires that the event in every case should be supposed to depend on the sentiments and sanction of their common constituents.
Federalist 40
Will it be said that the FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES of the Confederation were not within the purview of the convention, and ought not to have been varied? I ask, What are these principles? Do they require that, in the establishment of the Constitution, the States should be regarded as distinct and independent sovereigns? They are so regarded by the Constitution proposed.
Federalist 39
Each State, in ratifying the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others, and only to be bound by its own voluntary act. In this relation, then, the new Constitution will, if established, be a FEDERAL, and not a NATIONAL constitution. "If we be disatisfied with the national government, if we should choose to renounce it, this is an additional safeguard to our defence."
HAMILTON
Federalist 85
"Every Constitution for the United States must inevitably consist of a great variety of particulars, in which thirteen independent States are to be accommodated in their interests or opinions of interest. . . . Hence the necessity of moulding and arranging all the particulars which are to compose the whole, in such a manner as to satisfy all the parties to the compact."
GEORGE WASHINGTON
To Lafayette, June 17, 1788, he writes, "I mentioned the accession of Maryland to the proposed government. * * * The accession of one state more will complete the number (nine) needed to establish it."
To General Pinckney, June 28, 1788 he writes of, "pouring a libation to the prosperity of the ten states that had actually adopted" the constitution.
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
In the convention of 1787, he proposed, "each state should have equal suffrage," to secure "the sovereignties of the individuals states" and "their authority of their own citizens." [V. E.. Deb. 266]
GOVERNEUR MORRIS
"the constitution was a compact, not between individuals, but between political socities, * * * each enjoying SOVEREIGN power, and, of course, equal rights." [III, Life of G. Morris, p. 193]
JAMES WILSON OF PENNSYLVANIA
"Let it be remembered that the business of the federal convention was not local, but general; not limited to the views and establishments of a single state, but co-extensive with the continent, and comprehending the views and establishments of thirteen independent SOVEREIGNTIES." [II. American Museum, 379; Mass. Centinel, Oct. 24, 1787]
TENCH COXE OF PENNSYLVANIA
Coxe said that thought the federal constitution was to be adopted by the people, "yet it was to be done in their capacities as citizens of the several members of our confederacy. * * * Had the federal convention meant to exclude the idea of union, that is, of several and separate SOVEREIGNTIES joining in a confederacy, they would have said, 'We, the people of America," for union necessarily involves the idea of competent states, which complete consolidation excludes. But the severalty of the states is frequently recognised in the most distinct manner in the course of the constitution." [III. American Museum, 160, 244]
ROGER SHERMAN
"the government of the United States was instituted by a number of SOVEREIGN states for the better security of their rights, and the advancement of their interests."
OLIVER ELLSWORTH (later Chief Justice)
"the constitution does not attempt to coerce SOVEREIGN bodies -- states in their political capacity," but only provides for legal coercion of individual citizens. [II. Ell. Deb. 197]
JOHN MARSHALL (later Chief Justice)
In the Virginia Convention, in reference to a fear expressed by Henry and Mason, that "a state might be called at the bar of the federal court," and judicial coercion be attempted: "it is not rational to suppose that THE SOVEREIGN POWER should be dragged before a court." [III. Ell. Deb. 555]
JAMES IREDELL (later Sup. Ct. Justice)
Said he thought the senate "necessary to preserve completely the SOVEREIGNTY of the states." [IV. Ell. Deb. 133]
FISHER AMES OF MASSACHUSETTS GEORGE CABOT OF MASSACHUSETTS
"The senate is a representation of the SOVEREIGNTY of the individual states." [II. Ell. Deb. 26]
[See "The Republic of Republics, Benjamin Janin Sage, 1878 (first edition was in 1865), pp. 44-50]
He is known to have composed in private and then released a short family history in the late 1850's before his campaign for president but it barely mentions his mother and focuses mainly on the family of Thomas Lincoln. That there was something he desired to withold from the public is without question but the nature of what he desired to withhold is a mystery. Herndon reports that Lincoln confided in him once of his mother's illegitimacy - the product of an out of wedlock affair between his grandmother and a farmer from Virginia. But that was the only time he spoke of it.
Perhaps more interesting is Scripps' account. Prior to the 1860 election Scripps visited Lincoln to compose a campaign biography and spent many hours in discussion there. Scripps wrote to Herndon once about the interview, stating "He communicated some facts concerning his ancestry which he did not wish to have published and which I have never spoken of or alluded to before." Scripps' letter does not specify the matter any further and he died only a few months later in mid 1865 without revealing what it was.
The possibility exists that he confided in Scripps the same thing about his mother that he confided in Herndon, or it could be something entirely different. We'll probably never know exactly what it was. Perhaps a DNA study from Lincoln's known offspring could attempt to find a match with the other suspects.
http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/father.htm
Edward Steers, Jr. on Lincoln Paternity
[Non-Sequitur] It doesn't surprise me at all that you have jumped onto the Enloe paternity bandwagon but let me make your day and point out that, in fact, there are about 16 different individuals who various authors have claimed to actually be Lincoln's father. Among these are such notables as John C. Calhoun, Henry Clay, and Patrick Henry. Others claim that Lincoln's father was Jewish and I'm mildly surprised that you hadn't jumped on that theory instead.
[Steers] In fact, there are currently a total of 16 individuals who various authors have claimed hold such a distinction, if distinction is the right word. Among these sixteen are such notables as John C. Calhoun, Henry Clay, and Patrick Henry.
[Non-Sequitur] If she was really older then she must have been born in North Carolina, too, according to the Enloe legend. Was Enloe also the father of Sarah?
[Steers] If older, she must have been born in North Carolina according to the Enloe legend. Was Enloe also the father of Sarah?
[Non-Sequitur] If born in 1807, Sarah would in fact be younger than Abe.
[Steers] If born in 1807, Sarah would in fact be younger than Abe.
[Non-Sequitur] Assuming Sarah was born in 1807, and was therefore younger than Abraham according to the Enloe legend, all subsequent information about Sarah is up in the air.
[Steers] Assuming Sarah was born in 1807, and was therefore younger than Abraham according to the Enloe legend, all subsequent information about this girl is confusing.
[Non-Sequitur] She married Aaron Grigsby while living in Indiana with her family in 1828 when Abe was yet 19. If the Enloe story be true then he would have really been 24.
[Steers] She married Aaron Grigsby while living in Indiana with her family in 1828 (age 21) when Abe was yet 19 (or was he 24?).
[Non-Sequitur] One would think that the difference between 19 and 24 would have been obvious, yet it is not commented on.
[Steers] Surely the difference between 19 and 24 would have been obvious.
[Non-Sequitur] The earliest record existing of something written by Lincoln is dated 1824 and consists of his writing in a homemade school assignment book. If born in 1804, he would be 20 years old at the time of the writings as opposed to 15 years old.
[Edward Steers] The earliest record we have of Lincoln is dated 1824 and consists of his writing in a homemade school assignment book. These fragments of Lincoln’s school assignments contain a short rhyme which Lincoln wrote about himself as well as simple mathematical calculations. If born in 1804, he would be 20 years old at the time of the writings as opposed to 15 years old (1809).
[Non-Sequitur] Although open to debate, it seems far more likely that Lincoln was 15 and attending school in 1824 rather than 20 years old. Lincoln did not attend school at the age of 20 or, at least, there are no claims that he was still in school at age 20.
[Steers] Although open to debate, it seems far more likely that Lincoln was 15 and attending school in 1824 rather than 20 years old. Lincoln did not attend school at the age of 20 or, at least, there are no claims that he was still in school at age 20.
[Non-Sequitur] When the Lincolns left Indiana and moved to Illinois in 1830, Abraham Lincoln helped his parents locate near Decatur, Illinois.
[Steers] When the Lincolns left Indiana and moved to Illinois in 1830, Abraham Lincoln helped his parents locate near Decatur (Illinois)
[Non-Sequitur] He then proceeded to strike out on his own winding up in New Salem.
[Steers] He then proceeded to strike out on his own winding up in New Salem
[Non-Sequitur] This date is important because it represents his becoming 21 years old, the age of majority, and no longer under legal obligation to his father.
[Steers] This date is important because it represents his becoming 21 years old (the age of majority) and no longer under legal obligation to his father.
[Non-Sequitur] If born in 1804, he would have been 26 years old, five years past his age of majority.
[Steers] If born in 1804, he would have been 26 years old, five years past his age of majority.
[Non-Sequitur] It's up to your usual standards, and if it makes you happy then go for it.
[Steers] Essay copyright 2001 - 2002 by Edward Steers, Jr. All rights reserved.
[nolu chan] Up to your standards as well.
Plagiarism. The act of appropriating the literary composition of another, or parts or passages of his writings, or the ideas or language of the same, and passing them off as the product of one's own mind.
Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed., p. 1150
I caught garbage_truck doing the EXACT SAME THING about a month or two ago. He entered into a conversation with me and posted a lengthy passage about some abolitionists as his own. I did a quick search online and, sure enough, he had copied it directly from another person's article, added a couple sentences of his own, and posted it under his own name. And just a week or two ago, justshutupandtakeit engaged in another form of plagiarism - he quoted a passage from a book he claimed to have without providing either its title or author. Must be an epidemic at the Wlat Brigade.
Possibly because he knew so little about it. Nancy Hanks Lincoln died when Lincoln was 11. She came from a family not noted for literacy and so Lincoln would have had no family records to fall back on. There is a considerable body of evidence that indicate Nancy Hanks may have been illegitmate and that may be where the confusion comes from.
Lincoln told John Locke Scripps in 1860, "...it is a great piece of folly to attempt to make anything out of my early life. It can all be condensed into a single sentence, and that sentence you will find in Gray's Elegy, 'The short and simple annals of the poor.' That's my life, and that's all you or anyone else can make of it." As a prosperous attorney and influential politician, Lincoln may not have had any interest in dwelling on his poor upbringing, and that could be the reason for his being secretive. In any case, the whole claim of Lincoln's illegitimacy is spectulative. And just out of curiosity what relevance does it have?
In his special message of July 4, 1861 to Congress, seeking to justify his illegal actions and to obtain Congressional forgiveness, Lincoln lied repeatedly. He gave false information and he withheld information. His lies and omissions were relevant and material.
In Lincoln Lied 1, I documented that Lincoln lied about knowledge of the existing armistice and then stonewalled a request from Congress for relevant and material information.
In Lincoln Lied 2, I documented that Lincoln lied about knowledge of Lt. Worden and limits on communicating with Capt. Adams. Lincoln stonewalled a request from Congress about Lt. Worden.
[Lincoln] To now re-inforce Fort Pickens, before a crisis would be reached at Fort Sumter was impossible---rendered so by the near exhaustion of provisions in the latter-named Fort.
In this part of his message, Lincoln simply lied. It was not only possible to reinforce Fort Pickens before a crisis was reached at Fort Sumter, it actually happened.
April 11, 1861 (USS Supply, official ship's log)
"April 11th at 9 P.M. the Brooklyn got under way and stood in toward the harbor; and during the night landed troops and marines on board, to reinforce Fort Pickens."
H.W. Johnstone, at Fort Adams, R.I., twenty years later "met [then] General Vogdes, who remembered the incident and discussed it. In his remarks he stated that he had reinforced Fort Pickens before Fort Sumter was attacked; but, that his act was overshadowed by the clamor and furore about fort Sumter." Johnstone, The Truth of the War Conspiracy of 1861, (1921), p. 3.
Possibly, but the evidence indicates that he was hiding something that he did know of. Scripps specifically references whatever that was and mentions that Lincoln asked him not to disclose it. Herndon similarly recounts that Lincoln was very cautious to share what little he did even in their most private conversation. It is also evidenced by one of Lincoln's cousins in the Hanks family who Herndon tried to contact for further information. The cousin was extremely cautious and guarding of what he knew and would reveal.
There is a family bible record and it lists Lincoln's parents, but a section of the page has been torn out or worn away and is missing.
There is a considerable body of evidence that indicate Nancy Hanks may have been illegitmate and that may be where the confusion comes from.
That's what Lincoln told Herndon about his mother and it may be the answer. Or it may be something else or something more, because Herndon indicated that Lincoln was very guarded in even revealing that to him. Plus he unsuccessfully sought out Scripps and Lincoln's cousin under the belief that they both knew more, indicating that Herndon knew what Lincoln told him was not all of it.
* * *
Again the Kentucky tradition has it that there was a daughter born to Thomas and Nancy Lincoln in 1807, before Abraham, whom it records as first seeing the light 12th February, 1809. But there is a serious discrepancy here which Mr. Lincoln's biographers have not been able to reconcile.
Nicolay and Hay, the latter our late ambassador to England and present Secretary of State, both of whom were bery intimate with Mr. Lincoln, say that this sister's name was Nancy and contend that such was her real name. Mr. Herndon contends persistently that her name was Sarah and that the family knew her by that name. Her name appears of record in the family Bible as Nancy. Mr. Herndon surmises that the record was torn away down to the word Nancy and that the name was intended for that of the President's mother. There is no evidence that Mr. Lincoln ever paid any attention to this alleged sister. There was another Sarah in the family, daughter of Thomas Lincoln's second wife by her first husband. Mr. Lincoln's alleged full sister is said not to have resembled him in stature, being short and thick-set.
It is hard to imagine such stolid indifference and cold neglect on the part of such a man as Abraham Lincoln for an only sister -- the nearest relative he had in the world. But such is the statement of his biographer.
* * *
... there is no question as to the fact that this family record of Abraham Lincoln's birth is pure matter of tradition. There is no evidence that it was ever made matter of record in the family of Lincoln's reputed parents until 1851, and then the only chance to get it done was for Lincoln to do it himself.
The Genesis of Lincoln, James H. Cathey, 1899, pp. 88-95
The other Sarah in the family was Sarah Bush Johnston Lincoln and she was Thomas Lincoln's wife, not step daughter. She had three children from her first marriage - Elizabeth, John, and Matilda. She did not have a daughter named Sarah and did not have any children by Thomas Lincoln. The only Sarah was Lincoln's older sister.
Note that none of this information is a direct quote. The source for this is "Lincoln" by David Herbert Donald.
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