Skip to comments.Fully armed Nazi bomber planes 'buried below East Berlin airport'
Posted on 07/21/2003 8:17:05 PM PDT by Recourse
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I think that is a B52, images for which would be very easy to digitize and pass off as "the original prototype's simulation." Afterall, these are images that appear to have been provided to a flight simulator package, many of which include B52 skins and properties.
Here are some (possibly) more realistic images of the JU EF 132:
And the 131:
Yes it is difficult to make any kind of "fair" comparison. Should the destruction on the ground of an enemy aircraft be "sportingly" counted as a "kill"? Is 5 years on continuos flying duty, as the German pilots on the Eastern Front had to do out of necessity, in any way comparable to a tour of one year, as the Yanks and Brits (though I personally know some Eagle Squadron pilots that flew the whole 5 years). Especially considering that the Yank and Brit pilots had the duty of bomber escort and not the easy picken's the Germans had of the Soviet Air Force. Comparison? Perhaps. Perhaps not, but I don't "overate" the Germans as some are want to do.
During the mid-1930's, German agents poured over the patent offices of as many countries as its agents could access. It comes as no surprise to me that they seem, to many of you, as prolific inventors. The realities prove the Germans at being quite adept at reverse engineering, as were the Japanese (the "Zero" engine was an evolved copy of a British Bristol "Jupiter" engine). It is no surprise that the Germans chose to develop the axial flow jet engine, considering the remarkable showing of Charles Parsons, "Turbinia", in 1894. The Turbinia was a steam turbine of axial flow design that propelled the 100 ft. craft to 40 mph on the water. It is not much of a theoretical jump to replace expanding steam with expanding gas from the combustion of kerosene. Drawings of Parsons steam turbine were found at the Jumo Motor Werke by the allies after the war.
As for pilots, the Germans, as far as I am concerned, have a long way to go to compare to the skill and courage of the British pilot Jeffrey Quill and the American, Carroll MacColpin.
Quill was the Spitfires chief development pilot, as well as scoring two kills during the Battle of Britain. Quill was the test pilot that developed the "Spit" from 5,500 lbs. gross, 1050 hp, 8x.303 Browning machine guns in 1940 to the MK14 Spitfires weight of 12,500 lbs. gross, 2,500 hp, and 4x20mm Hisp-Suisa cannon (5 times the "throw weight of 1940). Quill also developed the carrier version of the Spit, the "Seafire". BTW, the first combat encounter between a Spitfire and an Me/Bf109 was on the 15th. of May, 1940, over France. Pilot Officer Alan Deere shot down 3, Me-109's on that day without a loss to his squadron. So much for the "Invincible" Messerschmitt. As for the Focke Wulfe 190, after the Spitfire Mk-9, there was no superior German fighter in the skies over Europe until the too late Me-262 (Yes, I know, it was all Hitler's fault).
Carroll McColpin was from California and was the American Commander of No. 133 Eagle Squadron. On Oct. 2nd. '42, McColpin went spinner to tail with Werner Molders. The British combat report claims the aerial combat lasted over half an hour. The result was a draw. McColpin, when bounced by Molders was already out of ammunition. He had no choice but to "out fly" the German "Ace".
So, keep it up, you "Kraut Lovers". I can go spinner to rudder with your claims of "German superiority", and if not shoot them down, argue them to a draw.
The Germans had two innovative designs in production during WW2 that had no allied counterpart: The V-2 ICBM and the V-3 stationary supergun. But even for those two technologies, the Germans stole the V-2 hook, line, and sinker...right down to copying American professor Robert Goddard's gyroscopic control and engine venturi...and the V-3 was simply an electricly-triggered version of a pyro-staged American Civil war cannon.
But for everything else, the allies had the same or a superior version. For the German V-1, the U.S. had the JB-10. For the ME262, the U.S. had the P-80.
Where the Germans fell remarkably short, however, was in the areas of mass production, encryption, computers, and atomic warfare, all of which were dominated by the U.S. and UK.
Moreover, the illusion of German technology is primarily due to the fact that the Germans lost the war and had **all** of their top secrets exposed. In contrast, the U.S. was able to maintain its secrets (well, except that the atomic warfare was a bit hard to hide, and the field of computers was so eagerly being pursued in U.S. research centers).
It doesn't take a German Rocket Scientist to suspect that these claimed number of kills, from a hundred Nazi pilots is equivalent to one aircraft's entire production, is a little exaggerated. The only explanation, that makes any sense of these claims, is that Hitler did not like to hear bad news.
... is a little exaggerated.
...Hitler did not like to hear bad news.
The US Army Air Corps fought all around the world, not just Europe. To imply that proof of the Luftwaffe's prowess is contained in the 40,000 combat fatalities statistic, is a specious argument at best. It still begs the question that if the Luftwaffe was so good, why did they loose the war. The more likely answer is that, as the Germans lost the air superiority they had at the beginning of the war and could not regain it, the only thing left to do was to lie. Just as we saw in "Baghdad Bob's" reports last April, that; "Iraqi armored units were turning back the American tanks", while the Abrams's tanks were rolling into Baghdad behind him.
Yes, and posting the exaggerated Luftwaffe claims is not unlike the obstinate posts of those Southerners that refer to the Civil War as; "The War of Northern Aggression". In fact, the South struck first, and in fact, the Luftwaffe claims are preposterous. Your list would not pass the test of Occam's razor.
Yes and.... Next Veterans Day, attend services at a cemetery and find a marker that has an Army Air Corps insignia on it and a date of death between 1942 and 45. Take out your little list of Nazi victories and read that list of kills over the grave. If you can.
Most of us would agree that it's a list of Nazi exaggerated claims and is just part of the other comments and images about the Nazis on this thread. What is your problem?
... is not unlike the obstinate posts of those Southerners that refer to the Civil War as; "The War of Northern Aggression".
First you attack me and then you attack Southerners. Who are you going after next?
...the Luftwaffe claims are preposterous.
Yes, that's all you had to say instead of going into the attack mode.
Next Veterans Day,...
Just who do you think you are questioning other peoples patriotism?
No, most don't. Three other posters on this thread regarding the Nazi scores, claim that they are true and not exeragerated.
"First you attack me and then you attack Southerners. Who are you going after next?"
I used that as an example. You must be a Southerner.
"the Luftwaffe claims are preposterous.
Yes, that's all you had to say instead of going into the attack mode."
That's all I did say until the Jr. Luftwaffe jumped in and claimed that the scores were factuall true "confirmed" kills.
"Just who do you think you are questioning other peoples patriotism?"
Start breathing through a paper bag and calm youself. I'm not dissing your patriotism, but your lack of judgement in posting bogus data. As I recall, it wasn't even on topic.
I never even heard of it.
.I really don't care what you post. It's a free forum, subject only to JR. If it's junk like your kill list, that is not the least bit related to bombs under an East German airport, go ahead and make an ass out of yourself.
As for me, I know that these claims are Nazi's bragging about the young Americans they think they killed. And not for freedom, but for sport and for Der Fuhrer. It wasn't a game of "Flight Simulator" for the allied aircrews. The blood was real.
Well it MUST be true. Its good stuff about the Nazi's and they wouldn't print it, if it wasn't true!
Yes. It's the "D" model. Came out late. Wasn't used much. Had a liquid-cooled (V12?) engine instead of the 14-cylinder radial.
Then read it and report back to us.
Then why do you keep commenting on and making a fool of yourself?
It's a free forum, subject only to JR.
Remember that next time.
I don't have to. I already know the ending.
Note: this topic is from July 21, 2003.
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The Germans never developed laminar flow wings. I am not sure about high octane fuel either. As I recall they also didn’t have drop tanks or as good bomb sights. They also lagged behind in radar development. They also didn’t understand strategic bombing or implement it.IMHO