Cave Skeleton Is European, 1,300 Years Old (West Virginia)

Sunday Gazette Mail ^ | 9-29-2002 | Rick Steelhammer

[Coyoteman]

Thanks for the interesting post, and I am enjoying the comments.

Have a Ph.D. in the subject, plus 30+ years experience.

It could be real. there's a way to find out. All you need to do is science.

He claims DNA and C14 results; great, lets see 'em. Let's redo them. If the results are the same the second and third time around, its a definite maybe.

But extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If I claim a 1,000 year old site around here, no big deal. If I claim a 10,000 year old site I better have some solid data. If I pull a Leakey and claim 100,000 years I better have truckloads of data.

Will wait for this one to show up in "American Antiquity" before I bet the farm on it.

[blam]

"If I pull a Leakey and claim 100,000 years I better have truckloads of data."

You mean like this one below?

Calico: A 200,000 Year Old Site In The Americas?

Also, what do you think of George Carter's work?

[StatesEnemy]

Old News

Kennewick Man is a 9000 year old new world 'caucasoid'

All of a sudden, "native" takes on a whole new definition.

[blam]

Spirit Cave Man is 9,400 years old. He was found in a cave in Nevada and is the oldest mummy ever found in the Americas.

[farmfriend]

I know you don't use ping list so I'm just happy the few times I'm remembered. Thanks.

[blam]

"I know you don't use ping list so I'm just happy the few times I'm remembered. Thanks."

I used to have a ping list but, no-one I pinged ever 'showed up.' So, I try to ping the ones who I can remember that show up repeatedly.

[farmfriend]

Ah, yes. I call that my short list. These aren't getting indexed either. Want me to do that?

[Coyoteman]

In response to your questions:

The Calico material is a problem. The Yermo strata really appear to be on the close order of 100,000 years old, if not older.

But if we have a 100,000 year old site, we should have 10 90,000 year old sites, and 100 80,000 year old sites, etc. That is what we get in the Old World, a steady progression, with increasing numbers of sites through about 3 million years.

In the Americas, there is a huge jump in the number of confirmed sites around 12,000-14,000 years ago, with a straggle of older sites that are trying to prove their claims. Some have decent data, most do not. For example, Phil Orr's skeleton from Santa Rosa Island has a very good claim to 13,400 years based on radiocarbon, geological and faunal evidence. Three distinct lines of evidence all point in the same direction. DNA is still forthcoming, with any luck. Its tough to find at that age, but they're trying.

Carter's work is interesting, but he has raised more questions than he or others have provided answers.

Anyone proposing greater than about 15,000 years old in California has a very high level of proof to offer. Don't know the rest of the US as well, but would be surprised if it was too different.

As for Europeans in WV at A.D. 700? Could happen! If so, there should be an easy proof for DNA vs radiocarbon. But both are subject to contamination, poor sampling methods, etc. It its real, it can be documented. Otherwise, it may have to join a large number of also-rans.

[farmfriend]

Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

[mrmargaritaville]

The empty bottles of Old Bushmill and Jameson led him to believe that the skeleton was of Celtic origin.

[blam]

"For example, Phil Orr's skeleton from Santa Rosa Island has a very good claim to 13,400 years based on radiocarbon, geological and faunal evidence. "

This one.

'Arlington Springs Woman', 13,000 Years Old Human Skeleton, California Island

[FreetheSouth!]

I was on your ping list and "showed up" looking forward to an interesting read. I didn't post unless I had something to say that would add to the discussion (I hate "me too" posts). I might not agree with the info but I knew I was in for an intriguing read that would challenge me to think a little harder about what I’ve been taught.

Bring back the ping list Blam!!

[aruanan]

How long before some moronic nativists try to seize the remains?

[blam]

"These aren't getting indexed either. Want me to do that?"

Please do. Ernest_at_the_Beach tried to teach me how to do that but, I could never do it and he got tired of doing it for me. So, yes, please do. I'll ping you to all the good threads, ha.

[John H K]

I think he actually has. I think this is the guy who was trying to get the Smithsonium to help him examine other human parts. Several letters went back and forth but no help. Basically his info did not fit into their world view.

Based on previous experience with pseudo-amateurs and the scientific establishment, it's probably more likely that the Smithsonian wouldn't fit into HIS world view.

For every time the amateur comes in and shows up the stuck-up stuffy professionals, there are about 10,000 kooks. All of the kooks think they're going to be the guy that shows up the stuck up stuffy professionals, though.

[rface]

Probably another one of my long-lost relatives.

[Archie Bunker on steroids]

Any Morman motivation to connect dots??? Tests being conducted at BYU.

[blam]

"But if we have a 100,000 year old site, we should have 10 90,000 year old sites, and 100 80,000 year old sites, etc. That is what we get in the Old World, a steady progression, with increasing numbers of sites through about 3 million years."

I agree. However, if there were small exiled human populations around the globe 75,000 years ago and the worldwide human population reduced to 2,000-5,000 as many believe, it would seem that some of these exiled populations could/probably went extinct in many areas thousands of years ago. This may have been what Carter was seeing in California and Calico.

Toba

[exit82]

Translation of wall markings: "Dude, that was some wave!"