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What happened to Spc. James Kiehl that made his widow sick after meeting with military briefers?
El Paso Times ^ | 07/04/03 | Laura Cruz

Posted on 07/05/2003 4:53:39 AM PDT by milemark

Military tells 507th, kin details of ambush
Laura Cruz
El Paso Times
Army officials have begun telling families and members of Fort Bliss' 507th Maintenance Company what the military's investigation has found about the March 23 ambush in Iraq in which nine 507th soldiers were killed, six captured and four wounded. The families Thursday were not discussing what they had been told because the Army asked them not to speak publicly until all families have been given the information. But Janie Kiehl, mother of slain soldier James Kiehl, who hadn't been briefed on the ambush yet, said that when her daughter-in-law -- James' wife -- was told the details, the young woman was physically ill for two days. The ambush and the resulting investigation became a national mystery because soon after the attack, five members of the 507th were shown on international television being held by Iraqi forces. The film also showed the bodies of some soldiers, raising speculation that some of them had been executed. Because no official word has been released by the military, a multitude of stories, including tales of vicious firefights and heroic efforts by U.S. soldiers, circulated throughout the media. The Army would not confirm any of the stories and launched two investigations into what happened that tragic night. The notification by Army officials is the first time the military has spoken to family members about what occurred near the city of Nasiriyah. "The members of the unit and the family members of the unit have been briefed, and the families of the soldiers killed in action are being briefed individually by a team of members from the 32nd Army Air and Missile Defense Command and the unit's chain of command," Fort Bliss spokeswoman Jean Offutt said. "It's been going on for a week. They should be finished sometime next week." Offutt said the military team notifying the families is sharing "everything they can, based on the investigation." "They are spending as much time as possible to make sure they understand everything they are told," Offutt said. Nancili Mata, widow of Army Chief Warrant Officer Johnny Villareal Mata, who was killed in the ambush, confirmed that she was given the details of the attack, but would not disclose any information. Mata, who was able to question the officers dispatched to her El Paso home, said she is going to respect the military's request not to repeat the story until all other families have been fully informed. The 507th, made up of mechanics, cooks and support personnel, was on its way toward Baghdad many hours behind a large convoy when it was attacked. What happened next has been difficult to determine. What has been publicized is the names of the casualties. One soldier, Pfc. Jessica Lynch, was rescued April 1 from a hospital north of Nasiriyah by U.S. special operations forces. The other five POWs were released on April 13 near the northern Iraqi city of Tikrit. The remains of those who were killed were taken to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware and later released to their families. Janie Kiehl, mother of Spc. James Kiehl, who was killed in the attack, said Thursday that she and her husband, Randy, have not been notified by the military or know of any of the details. "They contacted our daughter-in-law, Jill," Janie Kiehl said in a telephone interview from her home in Comfort, Texas. "They told Jill that until all the family members are told, they can't tell anyone what they were told, so she can't even tell us." Offutt said the military cannot order the families not to speak to the media or others, but "can only ask them to consider waiting until the report is officially released." Janie Kiehl said she's concerned that her daughter-in-law may have to recount the story to them. "I feel like it's not right. It's a pretty awful strain on my daughter-in-law to have to describe everything the military told her," she said. "We had sent up a list of questions for Jill to ask the soldiers when they told her the details, but she was so upset by what they told her that she couldn't even ask the questions. She was physically ill for 48 hours." Janie Kiehl said her husband has called the Army who said they would send someone to their home next week. "It's of major importance for me to know what happened to him," she said. "Whether or not he suffered, whether or not he was executed, whether or not he did a good job. I know he did, but it would be nice the hear the military say he did."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: 507th; army; executedprisoners; genevaconvention; iraq; iraqiwarcrimes; jameskiehl; jessicalynch; johnnymata; learntoformat; militaryfamilies; nasiriyah; paragraphsareok; pow; pows; warcrimes
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To: weegee
It was suspected that this could have been done to determine which men were circumcised (and possibly Jewish).

Maybe- but muslims circumcise as well. Actually, I think the pants being pulled down suggests something worse.

21 posted on 07/05/2003 7:25:06 AM PDT by fourdeuce82d
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To: TomGuy; AmericanInTokyo
I believe AmericanInTokyo might have seen it. Perhaps he can shed some light on what this poor widow was told.
22 posted on 07/05/2003 7:25:06 AM PDT by MizSterious (Support whirled peas!)
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To: MizSterious
I hope the criminals can be found if alive.I have hoped they are dead.
23 posted on 07/05/2003 7:26:46 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: weegee
I've also heard that they like to humiliate their prisoners by raping them--yes, even the men.
24 posted on 07/05/2003 7:29:34 AM PDT by MizSterious (Support whirled peas!)
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To: milemark
Hizballah Islamic mutilation billboard on the Lebanon Israel border. Showcasing how they mutilate IDF they capture. F' ing ghouls!

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7349_A_Message_of_Murder#comments
25 posted on 07/05/2003 7:33:46 AM PDT by dennisw (G-d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: MizSterious
I've also heard that they like to humiliate their prisoners by raping them--yes, even the men.

They can always rape with a bottle or metal shaft. One Islamic fave is to cut off the genitals and stuff it in the mouth. Done when dead but maybe alive too ......anyway that's how the poor soldier is found. The idea is to terrorize and bring dishonor on the enemy.

26 posted on 07/05/2003 7:37:03 AM PDT by dennisw (G-d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: dennisw
If they only knew--or cared--how much they dishonor themselves in committing such atrocities. How can a civilized world (excluding France, whose "civilization" is still a question) view them as anything other than barbarians? Animals have more honor.
27 posted on 07/05/2003 7:41:13 AM PDT by MizSterious (Support whirled peas!)
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To: MizSterious
If they only knew--or cared--how much they dishonor themselves in committing such atrocities.

Bottom line is they care what Allah and the Koran think about it ...and they don't have much problem with what you and I think. The Koran is full of the bloody and treacherous exploits of Muhammed. Including the treaty he broke with the Quraiza (sh)tribe. Muhammed ended up cutting the heads off the 800 men and selling women and children into bondage.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:4QTS4EFM-VMJ:answering-islam.org.uk/Nehls/Ask/model.html+tribe+mohammed+heads+800&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

28 posted on 07/05/2003 7:51:48 AM PDT by dennisw (G-d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: dennisw
I'm surprised that there isn't a trial before the world court in repsonse to the images on that billboard.

I won't include the photos (that can be reached through the link above) but I will include the description of the images:

The billboard, seen below, shows 5 pictures. The picture on the top left is of a blown-up Israeli in a market after a suicide bombing. In the middle is a mutilated Israeli skull. On the top right is the picture of a wounded young Israeli soldier who was held captive. The bottom right is a picture of 2 Israelis being shot by a firing squad. On the bottom left is the picture of a member of Hezbollah holding up the severed head of an Israeli soldier at a celebration rally of the soldier's killing. On the sign in both Arabic and Hebew are the words "Beware Sharon (Israel's Prime Minister), we still have 3 of your soldiers." When the billboard was erected, Hezbollah had just kidnapped 3 Israeli soldiers (two were in their early 20s, one was 19). Hezbollah has since killed all three soldiers.

There is a UN compound near the Hezbollah bunkers where this billboard is posted.

29 posted on 07/05/2003 12:46:28 PM PDT by weegee
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To: TomGuy
I went in search of that video when it happened. I only found clips.

The one that haunts me is the dead soldier whose pants were pulled down with a completely blood-soaked lap area. Means he was alive when they did whatever they did.
30 posted on 07/05/2003 6:54:58 PM PDT by FrogMom (He now sits whole, beside the Lord.)
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To: FrogMom
I am not sure why his widow would want to or have to hear all the details. It is unlikely that the guilty ones will ever meet justice in this life, why ruin the rest of hers?
31 posted on 07/05/2003 7:28:59 PM PDT by OldEagle (Haven't been wrong since 1947.)
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To: milemark
I pretty sure they cut off his penis-- yet, more evidence that the people we are dealing with are savages that deserve no mercy! And frankly, we need to get a whole lot tougher with them!
32 posted on 07/05/2003 7:31:51 PM PDT by faithincowboys
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To: MizSterious
This stuff isn't supposed to get out in the open. There might be a backlash within our borders during the heat of war, doncha know.
33 posted on 07/05/2003 7:40:21 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: OldEagle
I saw a posting of Arab atrocities on an infamous website whose addy I won't give here, and yes the Arabs pull down their enemy's pants, castrate him and stuff the result in the victim's mouth, then drag him victoriously thru the streets.

What can we expect from a culture that encourages suicide bombings by one sect of Muslims against another sect of Muslims in Pakistan? (270 people killed this weekend in one mosque suicide bombing.)

It's a pity that the world has winked at homicide bombings in Israel. Now they're seeing it spread to other countries.

34 posted on 07/05/2003 7:40:57 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: OldEagle
They must have been asking questions.

It's hard to say which way I'd go...

I'm the wife of a 24-year now-retired Army vet and the mother of a Marine (HooYah!). I probably would want to know, but also know that it would make the hatred burn very bright. Am not sure that knowing would solve anything.

Pray to God that people are not in this postion again.
35 posted on 07/06/2003 1:45:02 AM PDT by FrogMom
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To: milemark
What happened to Spc. Kiehl? This may shed some light:

QUOTE:
"That same day, March 28, an ambulance was sent by the hospital to pick up an American POW. Abdul Hadi was driving this time, and he says the American was a young man, about 19, with a buzz cut and reddish hair. The American was only lightly injured, if at all, and was held naked and handcuffed by the Saddam Fedayeen. He was smoking a cigarette. The Saddam Fedayeen refused to give up the American, and they chased Abdul Hadi away. That afternoon, the same American was brought to the hospital as a corpse, the doctors say, with multiple gunshot wounds, after having been executed by the Fedayeen. He was buried in the hospital compound, and his was one of the bodies recovered by the Americans on the morning of April 1."
Source: NY Times article

The description fits Spc. Kiehl. It's from the New York Times, so credibility may be an issue. This needs to be looked into, regardless of the accuracy of the NY Times piece. American POWs held by Iraq during 1991 Operation Desert Storm were beaten, some had bones broken, subjected to mock executions, were forced to make videotapes denouncing the U.S. etc.. The U.S. never pursued war crimes charges against the Iraqis. No wonder they feel free to entertain themselves by abusing and murdering captured Americans.
36 posted on 07/06/2003 1:50:02 AM PDT by jaykay
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To: FrogMom; OldEagle
I think they are informing the families because the press is getting some or all of the info and it would be terrible to learn of what happened to their loved ones from TV or newspaper reports. Note the story of the last hours of an American POW, probably Spc. Kiehl, in the excerpt from a NY Times article in my previous post.
37 posted on 07/06/2003 1:59:33 AM PDT by jaykay
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To: jaykay
It adds up.
The actions are a fact of this war and probably all wars. Perhaps the widow wanted to know the facts of her husbands death. War is hell. I think Pete Seeger (yes I'm that old) had a line "...I'll always wonder why, the worst of men must fight, and the best of men must die".
Some things never change.
38 posted on 07/06/2003 3:42:26 AM PDT by OldEagle (Haven't been wrong since 1947.)
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To: jaykay
Thank you for post number 36. It was very informative.

Please reference this thread on how the home town of Comfort, TX honored their fallen son. They probably knew how he died and they sent the most appropriate message possible.

Every American should see that thread and that honor...it is awe inspiring.

God bless those folks...and God rest James and comfort his family.

39 posted on 07/12/2003 10:18:37 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: milemark
My guess is that as Lynch lay there injured and unable to move, she watched the Iraqis execute these GIs. Part of her forgotten memory has to do with this episode. There is no doubt that these men were simply executed. You can look back at every major campaign since WW II...and in almost of them...the opposition has not abided by the Geneva Convention. While the civilized world puts great limits upon the US...they never say a word about these episodes when the other guys violate the convention.
40 posted on 07/12/2003 10:34:30 PM PDT by pepsionice
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