Factline: Global Wage Trends - The Next Low-Wage American Job

TradeAlert.org ^ | Friday, June 20, 2003 | Alan Tonelson

[Willie Green]

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

Average IT programmer salaries:

U.S.* -- $75,000

Ireland -- $23-34,000

Canada -- $28,174

Israel -- $15-38,000

China -- $8,952

Philippines -- $6,564

Russian Federation -- $5-7,000

India -- $5,880

*"senior software engineer/developer/programmer"

(Sources: "Real-time Salary Information," Payscale Inc., www.payscale.com/research/vid-18643/fid-6886; "Jobs take trip abroad," by Scott Leith, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, May 4, 2003)

[Age of Reason]

Now if only it cost a lot of money to phone one of those third-world workers.

That would eliminate the salary advantage.

Just why would it cost us a bundle to call India from a home phone (or worse, from a small business phone)--but it doesn't cost a big company a bundle to make the same call, or to supply toll-free customer service lines to India?

[oceanview]

those tariffs are never going to happen.

freeper parents of college bound children should take note from this thread and the many others on the offshoring trend: don't let your kids go to college to specialize in this field. Its a dead industry in this country, its being hollowed out like low skilled manufacturing was.

[StatesEnemy]

Its a dead industry in this country, its being hollowed out like low skilled manufacturing was.

Yup... Sure is.

I have a worthless bachelors degree, and 6 years of experience.

I am currently working 30 hrs a week in a local hardware store - doing side jobs under the table - and defaulting on student loans.

Thank you US Government (H1B) for selling me out.

[Dr Warmoose]

Gee, that only leaves medicine, sales, services, charities and government. Law work is being exported, dittos with accounting, tax preperation and financial analysis gigs, radiology is going over there, its getting cheaper to replace rather than repair, and manufacturing is still seeking that competitive edge found in slave states.

So maybe one should get into social services, marketing, education and politics. With so many people competing for that smaller slice of the non-exported pie, maybe even those "careers" will be those that benefit from current minimum wage legislation.

I don't think one needs a degree for plumbing, manicures, pizza delivery and clerking at the DMV or the drive through window.

Then again there is always dealing drugs, prostitution and gun running.

[lelio]

How about posting salaries of physicians and nurses? They're the next over here on the H1b train wreck.
Someone should ask Bush or Zoellick what, exactly, is the worth of a college degree going to be when you're competiting against third world countries for jobs? Why shouldn't I just become an auto mechanic? No offense to mechanics, but that isn't a way to build wealth.

[Centurion2000]

In IT, find a job that requires physical prescence

[LPStar]

It doesn't cost that much to phone India if you get a phone card at the local corner store. If you set up Voice over IP, or get a special bulk rate, it costs even less.

[Age of Reason]

I am currently working 30 hrs a week in a local hardware store - doing side jobs under the table - and defaulting on student loans.

What's worse, years ago working in a hardware store probably paid enough to afford a home and raise a family in many parts of the country (not to mention, working in a hardware store must be fun and interesting, especially with regular customers in a small town).

As recently as the early 1960's, you could buy a fairly nice starter home in a good neighborhood, having only a high school diploma, and by working in a factory (if you put in some time-and-a-half overtime once in a while).

I knew one fellow who did this who was a high-school dropout: He was married with a stay-at-home wife, two-children, and owned a new three-bedroom surburban home--all before the age of 24.

Of course, he didn't have cheap PC games and other plentiful gadgetry; life must have been hard back then.

[ContentiousObjector]

where the hell did they come up with those Canadian numbers?

They make anywhere from $55,000-$80,000.

With the exception of some loser from Devry or kid fresh out of school you would be very hard pressed to find a Canadian developer who would work for $28,000

[ContentiousObjector]

it should be added that $28,174 US is about $35,000 Canadian and the $55-80K range is Canadian Dollars

[StatesEnemy]

not to mention, working in a hardware store must be fun and interesting, especially with regular customers in a small town

Ohh it's great... but I must admit it's in my blood. My father owned a True Value and I was working there long before it was 'legal' for me to do so.

Solving problems is a hoot. And the store I work in is in a very small hill town - the horse census is 2/3rds that of the humans, so we sell feed, equine medicines, and all sorts of varied sundries. I'm learning (and enjoying) alot - just wish my boss could afford to pay me more.

[lelio]

Is there a WalMart in your town? I suppose they wouldn't sell horse supplies. Well not yet at least.

[StatesEnemy]

Well, the town I work in isn't the one I live in - though the commute is fairly short.

But this little establishment is in a very opportune location. The nearest BIG BOX hardware hanger is about 10 miles thru the winding hill passes.

It's small, but packed to the rafters with stock... and I know where everything is. ;-)

[netmilsmom]

Ping for bad news.

[CanadianFella]

I have a worthless bachelors degree, and 6 years of experience.

bachelor and experience in what profession

[Age of Reason]

Why all the horses?

[StatesEnemy]

IT

VB, C++, ASP, Cold Fusion, JSP, Pure Java (I moonlighted teaching two night semesters at a local college of Java), Javascript, and of course the requisite Database experience including Oracle, SQL Server, MySQL, Access...

[StatesEnemy]

Why all the horses?

My question as well.. but just about everyone has one. And some three

[Domestic Church]

"Gee, that only leaves medicine, sales, services, charities and government."

Don't count on medicine as the socialized writing is on the wall and SARS is going to fiscally gut the insurance end and force government intervention.