[Thunder 6]

"...so far the Stryker Brigades have been made from light infantry units."

Actually, the first Stryker BDE (3d BDE, 2ID) was an Armor BDE when it began the conversion. Small point, but 3/2, and the PA ARNG BDE were/are mechanized. The others (1/25, 2 ACR(L) 172d, and 2/25) are light BDEs.

You are dead on about the speed of an M1A1... ;)

regards,

[centurion316]

You are correct, but a small point of clarification on this issue might be in order, especially in light of the astounding lack of factual information that has accompanied this debate over the last few years. I know that this isn't news to you, but might be helpful to others:

The 3d Bde, 2d Infantry Division was the first brigade to convert to the Stryker oganization. At the time of its conversion, it was organized as a tank heavy mech brigade, two M-1 Abrams equipped tank battalions, and one M-2 Bradley equipped mech battalions. Just prior to conversion, one of the tank battalions was exchanged for a light infantry battalion with the 1st Bde, 25th Infantry Division, now converting as Stryker Brigade #2. So, conversion of the first Stryker Brigade resulted in the loss of 44 M-1 tanks from the rolls of the Active Army (tank battalions are smaller these days). Conversion of the second Stryker Brigade (1/25 Inf Div) also resulted in a net loss of 44 M-1 tanks. Total = 88 M-1 tanks.

The remaining four brigades slated for conversion, including the 56th Bde, PA National Guard do not have any M-1 tank battalions assigned.

Bottom line is that we are beefing up the light force, not standing down the heavy force - at least for now. Objective Force will eventually replace the M-1 and M-2, but far down the road, as you point out.

I'm sure that the PM Abrams briefing on M-1 performance must have been shown at the Armor Conference. The Abrams tank held up very well. So did the Bradley. M113s, USMC AAV's, and LAV-25s did not fare so well. Stryker would have fallen somewhere in between, depending on whether it included applique armor. Heavy force still first choice in a real gunfight, but Stryker would have come in real handy in Northern Iraq to reinforce 173d Abn Bde. Big problems trying to get TF1-63 deployed and supported. I would have signed up for a Stryker Bde up there in a New York minute.

Full spectrum force for full spectrum missions - I hope people quit taking cheap shots at Shinseki and get on with making the Army more lethal, more deployable, and more sustainable. Appreciate your voice of reason in the midst of this babble.

[Fred Mertz]

I read a military related article several days ago. I believe it said that of the 250 tanks in Iraq, 14 were damaged and two were destroyed. However, there was only one death of a crewman, and that was the one that tipped over in a canal and the driver perished; that tank was destroyed lest it fall in the hands of the enemy.

I hope my memory is accurate on this.

[glorgau]

You are dead on about the speed of an M1A1... ;)

The speed is kept down to keep the tracks on. It would really make a mess to have the 2 ton tracks coming off at 70 mph.

[Criminal Number 18F]

Thanks for the correction. I've got some friends on the heavy side of things but the only thing heavy in my career has been my rucksack!

The worst exercise scare I ever had was walking through a field at night, in the days before universal NVGs, and realising that the big looming shapes around us were a battalion of Leopards (the exercise enemy). There were three of us that night. The enemy (the union-labour Dutch) were sleeping. It was a black night, and all the machines were powered down, as we tiptoed through their assembly area.

Weren't the initial test units (IBCTs) also formed from a light division?

I feel for the poor Guard guys... they only have a few days to train, and I don't see how they can do that and maintain their vehicles. Of course, they were a mech unit already so they already have the problem, and I'm sure deal with it as best they can. Maybe they have more full-time AGR or tech positions for maintainers. Glad it's not my problem.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F