CORONAVIRUSES, ANIMAL: INAPPARENT INFECTION

ProMed ^ | 4-30-03

[I'll be your Huckleberry]

CORONAVIRUSES, ANIMAL: INAPPARENT INFECTION **************************************

Date: Wed 30 Apr 2003

From: Dr. Zhiru Guo

I noticed that Canadian scientists found evidence of SARS virus in some "healthy control" people [see: "SARS - worldwide (69): diagnostic testing 20030425.1015"]. It is a puzzling finding. During investigation of the cause of bovine "sudden death syndrome" in past years, researchers in my institute also found coronavirus-like particles in ultrathin sections of several tissues of some clinically heathy animals, even in sections of hearts.

A similar situation existed in pigs and dogs; it seems that coronavirus was a "normal parasite" of those "healthy animals." We still cannot explain those puzzling findings now.

--

Dr.Zhiru Guo Laboratory of Genetic Engineering Deptment of Virology Veterinary Institute Changchun University of Agriculture and Animal Sciences. 175 Xi'an Road, Changchun 130062 P. R. of China

[I'll be your Huckleberry]

So you still think these findings are artifacts and a third entity is the actual cause? Do you think these two set the stage for the third entity to be activated? Is the third entity in the immune system itself?

17 posted on 03/26/2003 8:20 AM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG...)

To: Domestic Church

Paramyxoviruses and coronaviruses are fairly benign residents of the human respiratory tract.

They are being found because they are there. Not because they are the SARS determinant

19 posted on 03/26/2003 8:27 AM PST by Mother Abigail

[I'll be your Huckleberry]

It appears Sir, that you are one very sharp dude.

[chance33_98]

I was looking forward to all the news stations gearing up for mosquito season and SARS :) Oh and sharks.

[aristeides]

I believe that the vast majority of cats in whom the feline infective peritonitis (FIP) coronavirus is found are perfectly healthy. But that doesn't stop the virus from causing fatal disease in some cats, apparently through the kind of overreaction of the immune system discussed on threads yesterday.

[js1138]

...apparently through the kind of overreaction of the immune system discussed on threads yesterday.

I seem to recall a line from the book "Lives of a Cell" which says "We are mined. We are at the mercy of our own Pentagons." Or something close to that.

[Domestic Church]

Thanks, no dude though...dudette might work if I was 20 years younger.

Now if they can only find the SARS triggers. I have a feeling they are a range of possibilities including some very mundane reactions like an unknown subclinical sensitivity to some range of UV light or subclinical bacterial infection.

That antarctic microbiologist who was bumped off is a red flag.

[EternalHope]

Mother Abigail was spot on.

Hope she (or he) is still at least lurking.

[Darksheare]

Just a thought-provoking story short I wrote:

Who would have thought that mankind would kill themselves in this fashion?
Perhaps I should back up a bit in my story. I'll just take a small, pained sip of my drink and recall the promise of a few years time passing us by:

I remember it well. I had been at an exposium on DNA and pro-viruses in the human genome listening to a Dr. Geraud speak on what these pro-viruses do. The doctor had quoted an expert in the field on a link between a certain pro-virus and some forms of schizophrenia. The researcher had found pro-virus dna in the blood of several patients, meaning that the pro-virus was active. But he didn't know how a small segment in the DNA could become active by itself like that, nor did he know the mechanisms behind it.
Then Dr. Geraud stunned the crowd. He stated that he had researched the human DNA and discovered what appeared to be bio-engineered sections in our own DNA. Silence followed for a few minutes as the throngs of scientists and reporters digested the implications of this. Then silence was followed by laughter and mockery.
Who would have thought it? Humans bio-engineered? Pure tripe! They all said so. But they were all so desperately wrong. I laugh now to think of it. But the doctor, the poor fool, let loose his next fusilade at the walls of intellectual superstition and let it be known that he'd identified a few of the 'useless' sections of our DNA as actually being useful when turned on. And he let it be known that he'd actually activated a few of those sections in some of his subjects in tests.
At first, the scientific community went insane with rage. A few dared to say that the doctor was playing God. Poor sick fools, they all denied His existence, and now they invoked Him as a King Arthur to the doctor's Mordred. But years passed, and research went on, as it always does. And the promise of a new era in medicine came to light. They found dormant DNA sections that could be used to repair unheard of damage to the body. They found out how to make the nerves fire faster, making boxing an even more difficult sport where the combatants already had a hard time seeing the movements of the other. But then, then they found a section of DNA that was even more complex than anything they'd found so far. And just as dormant as the others. They studied it for a year, and modeled the section, and postulated it's uses.
And then the folly of it all came to pass. They activated the section. Remember the viruses I mentioned earlier? Oh yes, yes there are worse things than ebola in the world. And mankind carried this one in his own genetic code. Schizophrenia was a warning to us. A warning not to activate the dormant sections in our DNA. Fools! All of us... And it was there all the time. And we did it to ourselves. The ones who engineered us didn't have to put us down. They merely had to wait and we'd do it ourselves, once we got smart enough to.
And we died. All of us. By the millions we dropped. Dead as the lake in Utah. And so I sit here and wait for my own end, with my drink and my time dripping away from me. I wait for them to come and see the end of what they started all that time ago when they engineered us for our own destruction.
I wish I knew what the doctor thought of al....

[riri]

Experts: 2 Forms of Virus

[riri]

pinging you to above link. Experts: 2 Forms of Virus

[riri]

WHAT VIRUSES HAVE SARS PATIENTS BEEN TESTED FOR?

By Charles Ortleb

As scientists struggle today with the problem of not finding the SARS-associated coronavirus in most of the patients with the syndrome, wouldn't it be nice if someone would publish a complete list of all the viruses (animal and human) that the patients have been tested for?

Actually, what might be the most helpful, and the most revealing, is the list of viruses the patients have not been tested for.

Is there any other part of the SARS story that's more important now than the fact that the coronavirus may only be part of the puzzle or that it's a huge mistake? Journalists should keep the heat on the CDC on this one. Don't hold your breath.

Meanwhile, dogs and cats are now suspected carriers of SARS in Beijing. They're being taken from the homes of SARS patients and killed. That should raise this crisis to a new prominence in the media.

In the Philippines, some leaders in the livestock industry fear that meat might transmit SARS , and legislators are calling for a boycott of all meat from China. There is still no indication that pigs or other barnyard edibles in China have even been tested yet for the SARS coronavirus. All the quarantines in the world may do nothing to wipe this illness out if animals are a growing unrecognized reservoir of the SARS virus(es).

Charles Ortleb is the author of The Closing Argument and the co-author of The Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Follies.

[EternalHope]

The article you linked on post #9 was outstanding. Thanks for the ping.

[EternalHope]

Ortleb: As scientists struggle today with the problem of not finding the SARS-associated coronavirus in most of the patients with the syndrome...

This statement is not correct, although it is not entirely incorrect either. Since this is the underlying premise for his whole article, his conclusions are in doubt but not guaranteed to be wrong. (How's THAT for inconclusive..)

Only Canada has failed to find the SARS virus in most of its patients. Canada has reported it found SARS in only 40% of its patients, but it is not clear if that included "suspected" cases as well as "probable" cases.

ALL nations have found that finding the virus early in the course of the disease is very difficult. It may take 10 days AFTER a person is symptomatic before the virus can be found reliably. A high false negative rate early in the course of the disease has been the major problem with EVERY diagnostic test thus far developed.

In short, Ortleb's assertion that the SARS virus is not being found in most of the patients with SARS is not supported by the evidence. However, the very obvious difficulty we are having finding SARS early in the course of the disease is most definitely one the major problems with SARS. Since we know a lot less about SARS than we like to think, it is possible that Ortleb is on to something, even if he mangled some of his facts.

[aristeides]

If I understand the Laurie Garrett piece, the headline is not quite accurate. She's not saying there are two forms of the SARS virus, she's saying there are two forms of the disease, depending on the route of infection with the one SARS virus, whether the route is respiratory or gastrointestinal.

[per loin]

As memory has it, Hong Kong also had some trouble finding the virus in some people during the early stages of their sickness.

[riri]

Agreed. That was how I understood it also.

[Betty Jo]

The more I read, the more confused I become.

[Dog Gone]

We still need to reconcile the Dutch experiment where they gave the monkeys the suspected coronavirus and they came down with SARS.

[I'll be your Huckleberry]

Here is my take:

1. Canadian Virologist specializing in Ebola

2. She is a she, tone and the flirting with vetvetdoug

3. Christian who believes this is part of end time prophecy

4. Quit posting for the exact reason she gave, not resident trolls. See her destruction of Tax Relief on man to primate trans. of the Proxy. virus., not timid

5. Motive????? Why FR and why such heroic efforts? I can't get a fix on that. Please offer up any ideas that you may have.

6. Lurking and not posting? I don't think so dosen't feel right for her energy.

This is my read, based on nothing more than my skills as a gambler. People are people and in reality not that complex.

Regards

[I'll be your Huckleberry]

Help me with this,

They gave monkeys a flu virus and they got the flu?

Did they die?

Did the require respirators?

I am not sure I understand how this all works.