State jobs move offshore as firms continue to economize

The New Haven Register (Connecticut) ^ | April 14, 2003 | Maria Garriga

[cynicom]

Called HP three times two weeks ago for tech support. Got help from Bangolore India. Perhaps we should send political jobs and management jobs overseas also. Perhaps then this country would wake up.

[Nowhere Man]

More to the point, if the Republicans don't address it then the Democrats will.

That is true as well, The Republicans were (well, as perceived at least) the party of the "working man" from the late 1800's to the time of FDR in the 1930's when the role was reversed. I think if the Republicans did address that issue, it would help many see the Republicans are the party of the working man again. FDR and the Democrats have won over a lot of that segment through handouts and programs, I think we need to win over the same people through things like tax cuts and perhaps tax breaks for companies who keep their jobs in the United States. I'd like to stay away from programs and handouts as much as possible while protecting our jobs though, but we do need to clamp down on the H-1B visa all the way to absolute zero. I know the Teamsters did support President Bush in 2000, we need to build upon that.

[Black Agnes]

Read the bit about insurance companies.

[Nowhere Man]

In the process, the American working class gets reduced to the level of some third-world shanty all the time buying into the rhetoric of both the left and the right.

The only way this blows up in their faces is when nobody can buy the homes, cars, and gadgets that these companies will be producing with their slave labor. And don't think a handful of super-wealthy corporate executives will be able to support the entire American economy. Furthermore, don't believe for a minute American goods will have a market overseas. American money, yes. American commerce, no.

Of course, by then it will be too late.

I remember talking about this to my father many times. He retired not too long ago, he'll be 66 this year. He seems to think that this game will go on and on until things collapse one way or another so I think he would concur with your opinion. With the election of GW Bush and such, I think we might have won a reprieve for some time and hopefully things will improve although I'd like to see the Republican Congress address some of these concerns like us bleeding jobs and the H-1B visa situation. Unfortunatly I doubt we see much change there and as one poster put it, if the Republicans don't address it, the Democrats will.

Like you, my father seems to think that it is going to crash, I guess sort of like John Galt from the novel "Atlas Shrugged." I guess I would fill the role of Eddie Willers, keep trying to work with it, hoping things will improve at some point despite things going downhill. I guess if we get enough action, maybe we will. If not, I hope I don't go crazy like he did at the end of the story. B-)

Seriously, I doubt very many people in places like India, Red China, Indonesia, and other places will not be able to buy things like American cars. I think for these people, Cadilliacs and even Fords are way to expensive, if they are lucky, they will be able to afford motor scooters and cheap cars. Still, I don't deny people over there getting good jobs (I guess scaled for their economy) but I think we should not see the American public and economy suffer over it.

[Nowhere Man]

Called HP three times two weeks ago for tech support. Got help from Bangolore India. Perhaps we should send political jobs and management jobs overseas also. Perhaps then this country would wake up.

Ugh, it's getting to the point where you might as well just work on it yourself. I know at work, I had problems with an HP computer. Being the computer person there, I just fixed it myself, thank God, but I feel for the people who need tech support. One of my co-workers got a digital camera for Christmas and he called tech support on it, got someone in India, he couldn't understand them over there. He just goe so P.O.ed that he said, "I need somebody who speaks English!"

[cynicom]

My problem was a bum mouse with my new HP puter. Mechanical problem. After much talking with the Indian, he agreed to have a new mouse shipped. Very prompt shipment, only they sent me 5 discs on how to program a puter if I wanted to empty it and start over again. After the third call, I finally received the new mouse, after nearly two weeks of hassle.

They did not ask for the discs back so guess they are mine. Hell of a way to run a company.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Mister, I have seen it happening in 15 counties of Tennessee. Real jobs at living wages are being destroyed by sending the work to nations that pay slave wages. Real income of Americans is headed down as unemployment rates go up. At the same time, illegal immigrants are taking many of the jobs still left for Americans to do. Illegal Mexicans live 20 to a house and sleep on the floor and work for half or less than do Americans. The only way Americans can compete is to live 20 to a house and sleep on the floor.

Aint that the freaking truth. It's a complete sell out...

[Black Agnes]

ping.

[WRhine]

Mister, I have seen it happening in 15 counties of Tennessee. Real jobs at living wages are being destroyed by sending the work to nations that pay slave wages. Real income of Americans is headed down as unemployment rates go up.

At the same time, illegal immigrants are taking many of the jobs still left for Americans to do. Illegal Mexicans live 20 to a house and sleep on the floor and work for half or less than do Americans. The only way Americans can compete is to live 20 to a house and sleep on the floor.

Well Said NCLA. That's the reality in America today. The Middle Class is being squeezed from all sides, while our "so-called" elected officials in both parties jump through hoops for their corporate contributors. What was it that Vice President of Boeing said a few months ago--"The workers in America are not entitled to any kind of standard of living."

In a way he is absolutely right but at the same time Boeing is not "entitled" to ship their jobs overseas to save on labor costs and then EXPECT duty free imports for such actions either. It's a two way street. Unfortunately for now it is One Way Street and the American Worker is PAYING DEARLY FOR IT.

[Koblenz]

Unfortunately (not so much in Meriden), you do have to earn quite a bit to live in this state, which recently ranked #1 in the nation for taxes.

Taxes are high, but not the highest rates in the nation. Yes, CT residents pay more in taxes than any other state residents on average, but this is because of high incomes, and thus high federal taxes. Many states have higher marginal rates than Connecticut: California, for instance, has significantly higher rates.

What is expensive in Connecticut is housing. And in the places where housing isn't so expenive, real estate taxes are likely to be. Connecticut doesn't have counties: only on the map. Every town is a separate property tax zone. This means that rich towns like Darien, Greenwich, New Canaan and Westport have relatively low property tax rates, since their grand list is very good. Poor towns like Bridgeport have very high property taxes. If you buy a house for $100,000 in Greenwich, your house would be assessed at $70,000, and your taxes would be about 1% of that, or $700. In Bridgeport, your house would also be assessed at $70,000, but your property taxes would be 6.5% of that, or about $4,500. Of course, there's no $100K house in Greenwich. But in Bridgeport, where Democrats have ruled forever, high property taxes cause people to not want to go there. The grand list goes down, so taxes go up. A death spiral.

[WRhine]

Which is why it is good to be a shareholder.

You think so huh? Figure this into your equation: as the economic trends of Middle Class America continue to decline because of our government’s reckless trade and immigration polices--just who is going to be around to buy our 1/4 chuck of the world's GDP? If think this will be made up from the rising wealth of our foreign competitors think again.

No nation on earth has anything close to our constitution, rule of law, norms, values, culture, customs and system of governance that formed the basis of so much prosperity for so many as was the case in America up until recently. What you will find around the world are many oppressive regimes that hoard much of their peoples' wealth and a slew of ethically challenged "global” companies that are more concerned with getting their executives wealthy than their shareholders. Perhaps you have been asleep for a few years. Lot's of luck on your investments though. You will need it.

[WRhine]

More to the point, if the Republicans don't address it then the Democrats will.

Or, either way, the Beltway Party wins. Where it counts today IN America, there is not much difference between the two parties. They are joined at the hip and then some.

[ModernDayCato]

Bzzt..sorry...you're incorrect. I refer you to the article on Microsoft's Business web site B Central written by Phillip Harper, when you consider federal and state taxes, the #50 in lowest taxes (or #1 in highest taxes) is Connecticut, with an average of 36.7% in taxes (and this is before the latest tax increase).

Here are the rest of the bottom 10:
49. Washington - 35.6
48. New York - 34.7
47. New Jersey - 34.3
46. Wyoming - 34.1
45. Wisconsin - 33.2
44. Minnesota - 32.9
43. (tie) Michigan - 32.8
Illinois
41. California - 32.7

Yes, that's right...our tax burden is HIGHER than New York and California.

[ModernDayCato]

Lenzie,

I read the rest of your post, and I want some of what you're smoking.

The article I referred you to didn't measure taxes in dollars -- it measured them in percentages. Your assertion that CA has higher rates is incorrect.

Also, for someone who says that the market has a solution for everything, not having counties should prove your point. The whole idea behind taxes by town (beside getting rid of a layer of government), was to have the people closest to the government pay for it, though that doesn't happen here in practice due to the redistribution of state taxes to towns.

As far as the so-called 'rich' and 'poor' towns are concerned, I agree that the mill rates are usually lower, but the values of the houses are usually higher. Connecticut's cities are basically Democrat cesspools. I know, because I grew up in one. There have been attempts in the General Assembly to 'regionalize' property taxes so that those of us who escaped the cities can still pay for them. You'll see...

[Koblenz]

You can't include federal taxes in an evaluation of which states have the highest taxes. CT has the highest taxes because we have the highest incomes. I think CT state income tax should be lower, but because our average income is higher than say, Alabama's, our citizens are in higher federal brackets and thus pay higher taxes. What would be a more useful definition would be to look at various incomes, and see what the tax burden in each state would be at those incomes. If you make $100K, for instance, your federal taxes would be the same in all states, but your state taxes would be different. But if you look at the average income tax paid in each state, poor states will look like they are low in taxes. If you look at the average percentage, you've got to exclude federal taxes. Including federal taxes makes no sense. If you have a state with an average income of $50,000 but no state income tax, its citizens are still going to pay higher income taxes than a state with $25,000 average income and a 3% state income tax, because the federal tax rate differences.

I'm not an advocate of regionalization in taxes, but was trying to explain why some property taxes in CT are high, and how that might affect the average (since poor people pay higher property taxes). I favor keeping the taxes the responsibility of local towns.

[flattax]

I think the situation is clear. The only way to solve this problem is to lower our currency values against those developing counties. Most developing nations play this game by setting their currency exchange rate so low that support this unfair competition favoring their countries.

Maybe we are not as rich as we think. But we need to negotitiate with foregn national leaders to adjust the currency exchange rate to a fair level.

[flattax]

I think the situation is clear. The only way to solve this problem is to lower our currency values against those developing counties. Most developing nations play this game by setting their currency exchange rate so low that support this unfair competition favoring their countries.

Maybe we are not as rich as we think. But we need to negotitiate with foregn national leaders to adjust the currency exchange rate to a fair level.

[flattax]

We need to lower our currency exchange rate.

[flattax]

We need to lower our currency exchange rate.