Posted on 03/31/2003 7:25:35 PM PST by Mihalis
Our political system does not compete with with institutions which are elsewhere in force. We do not copy our neighbors, but try to be an example. Our administration favors the many instead of the few: this is why it is called a democracy. The laws afford equal justice to all alike in their private disputes, but we do not ignore the claims of excellence. When a citizen distinguishes himself, then he will be called to serve the state, in preference to others, not as a matter of privilege, but as a reward of merit; and poverty is no bar.
... The freedom we enjoy extends also to ordinary life; we are not suspicious of one another, and we do not nag our neighbor if he chooses to go his own way. ... But this freedom does not make us lawless. We are taught to respect the magistrates and the laws, and never to forget that we must protect the injured. And we are also taught to observe those unwritten laws whose sanction lies only in the universal feeling of what is right....
Our city is thrown open to the world; we never expel a foreigner.... We are free to live exactly as we please, and yet, we are always ready to face any danger.... We love beauty without indulging in fancies, and although we try to improve our intellect. this does not weaken our will.... To admit one's poverty is no disgrace with us; but we consider it disgraceful not to make an effort to avoid it. An Athenian citizen does not neglect public affairs when attending to his private business.... We consider a man who takes no interest in the state not as harmless, but as useless; and although only a few may originate a policy, we are all able to judge it. [Emphasis in Popper.] We do not look upon discussion as a stumbling block in the way of political action, but as an indispensable preliminary to acting wisely....
However, the USA is a REPUBLIC.
It would be national suicide if the US ever did that.
"[The enemies of Pericles were] crying out how that the commonwealth of Athens had lost its reputation and was ill-spoken of abroad for removing the common treasure of the Greeks from the isle of Delos into their own custody; and how that their fairest excuse for so doing, namely, that they took it away for fear the barbarians should seize it, and on purpose to secure it in a safe place, this Pericles had made unavailable, and how that 'Greece cannot but resent it as an insufferable affront, and consider herself to be tyrannized over openly, when she sees the treasure, which was contributed by her upon a necessity for the war, wantonly lavished out by us upon our city, to gild her all over, and to adorn and set her forth, as it were some vain woman, hung round with precious stones and figures and temples, which cost a world of money.'
Pericles, on the other hand, informed the people, that they were in no way obliged to give any account of those moneys to their allies, so long as they maintained their defense, and kept off the barbarians from attacking them..."
-- Plutarch's Life of Pericles
Although Sparta was not a particularly nice place for either Spartan or outsider, it did have a very interesting and stable government whose separation of powers provided the model for the Founders in designing the government of the nascent United States. Athenian ideals, Spartan model...well, it does beat the other way around, I guess...
However, the difference I think is minute as about as relevant as infralapsarianism and supralapsarianism.
Absolutely right. And not coincidental.
I'm not shorting Pericles, by the way - brilliant, articulate fellow. A couple of military breaks or the absence of the plague and he just might have pulled the Athenian chestnuts out of the fire in the Peloponnesian war. What is amazing to me is that he had all the characteristics and opportunities of a classical despot and still he chose to stand for election yearly, and actually did lose one. Says a lot for the Athenian system.
I have heard it said that the limit of size of a democracy then was the number of people who could gather within earshot of an orator's voice. Since they voted on the spot I tend to believe it. I think we see something like that in contemporary politics as well, which is a cautionary note for those who would try it nationwide. The Founders knew what they were doing.
You did?.....And I just had Pericles on the phone....LOL!
America is the most open society of all time.
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