[Sabertooth]

as to Iraq, it has the best chance if conditions are right of achieving some semblance of democracy of anywhere in the Arab world among the major players. You heard it here first.

First? C'mon, that's been rattling around FR for a year and a half.

I actually think there's some merit to that experiment. Iraq's secularism could give it the best shot at democracy. Either success or failure there would be instructive.

[Torie]

Ok, I am not first, second, third or fourth, and whatever, but the thrust here was that Barnes was being pollyanish. I think we have a reasonable shot, assuming a massive number of civilians are not shot. And that means if we want to win the peace, that we might have to endue a lot of delay and frustration.