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But, he added, it is ''uncontroverted that while handcuffed, Taylor was able to pull a box-cutter with a 4to 5-inch blade out of his pocket.'' Stengel said that marks found on Taylor's body during an autopsy -- as well as witness accounts -- ''show that he was able to get his right cuff considerably up his arm.''

''This enabled him to have the boxcutter on his right front and allowed him substantial movement'' -- so much that one witness said he thought the cuffs had been taken off, Stengel said.

Stengel said Taylor refused several commands to drop the knife and continued to advance, even after being shot.

In the one-room apartment, it was only 11 feet from the foot of Taylor's chair to the farthest corner, where O'Neil retreated, Stengel said.

Do we really want to remove the natural right of self-defense? I for one will not second-guess an officer's lawful actions, for I was not there in the crowded room when the perp decided to lunge at the officer.

Probably not. What I suspect happened, and what is left unsaid, is that the detective that ran was probably the one who botched the job of cuffing the perp.

Don't get me wrong - he was an old perp, but apparently had been a very bad man in his youth. Probably got a second wind.

CJ,

I rarely disagree with you and even went so far as to point you out as one of our smartest FReepers on that popularity thread last week.....but....if you or I shot a fellow with his hands cuffed behind his back, we'd be facing charges.

For the record, I'm not fond of second guessing beat cops either but this one raises my eyebrows.

For once I must agree with you.

A suspect holding a knife is an immediate threat to every officer in the room, handcuffed or not.

In fact, cops have been killed by handcuffed suspects wielding knives.

L

I for one will not second-guess an officer's lawful actions...

Trust me, the officer will be only too willing to second-guess your actions under similar circumstances.

CJ,

I almost never agree with you but you've called this one right. Advancing on a police officer, armed, and refusing orders to drop the weapon - he surely asked for it.

The police officer is not obligated to "subdue" such a clown in a way as to risk his life and the control of the situation. He subdued him in a very practical way.

My only question is "Why eleven shots?" Either it was overkill or the guy with the boxcutter was one tough, determined dude.

"Do we really want to remove the natural right of self-defense? I for one will not second-guess an officer's lawful actions, for I was not there in the crowded room when the perp decided to lunge at the officer."

I'm from Louisville.

This one is clean and clear. The cop was dead on to shoot the guy.

According to the DA, after 12 shots the guy was still standing and had to be kicked over.

Do we really want to remove the natural right of self-defense? I for one will not second-guess an officer's lawful actions, for I was not there in the crowded room when the perp decided to lunge at the officer.

Gotta agree with you there. I will definitely call the cops on the mat if I think something smells, but when it's a case like this one, I side with the cops. I don't blame the officer a bit for what he did to protect himself. I don't have problems with him emptying a clip into the guy either (especially when the perp's that close with a deadly weapon and momentum would carry him forward even after being shot several times). I do have a problem with the differing standard for using deadly force (if we citizens emptied a full clip into somebody rushing us we'd likely be in trouble), but that's a legal issue, and not exactly open to debate when you have an armed attacker rushing you. Kudos to this officer for doing what he had to do.

One thing I am wondering is how he (the perp) got the handcuffs up so high on his arm. I don't have experience in handcuffing people (or getting handcuffed myself!), but the only way I could see it happening is that this guy must've had pipe-cleaners for arms.