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Jenin massacre uncovering
Australian Broadcasting Corporation ^ | April 19, 2002 8:08 | LINDA MOTTRAM

Posted on 04/20/2002 4:44:02 AM PDT by Jurist

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To: Diogenesis
Hey Suha:.....Send your daughter....the girls are now huan bombs also. Don't use the excuse of not having a son......send your daughter like others are sending their human bombettes out to kill and be killed. Give your regards to Hillary when you meetagain.
61 posted on 04/20/2002 6:14:09 AM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: OldFriend
Amnesty International was NOT quite after the WTC attack. I saw them in our town protesting military action before we even started. They are outright socialists and I do not believe a word that they say. They're trully twisted.

"He says the truth will come out, just as it did in Bosnia and in Kosovo before and the UN envoy, Terje Roed-Larsen"

Michael Savage said weeks ago that the UN was going to try to charge Israel for War Crimes...I'm starting to get a sick feeling in my stomach.

62 posted on 04/20/2002 6:14:12 AM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: Catspaw
Python knew the French. They are real hive members, working to overthrow every conservative government but theirs.
63 posted on 04/20/2002 6:16:15 AM PDT by gortklattu
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To: MeeknMing
If Sharon is the doggie, than Arafat is what comes out of the dogs BUTT!
64 posted on 04/20/2002 6:16:31 AM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: Calculus_of_Consent
I used to believe we were better than the terrorists.

If you do not still believe this than you are not fit to live in this country.

65 posted on 04/20/2002 6:16:43 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Jurist
 
66 posted on 04/20/2002 6:17:24 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Jurist
I saw personally an about 12-year-old boy being dug out, his body totally destroyed. I saw two brothers digging out of the rubble their father and their brothers.

How do we know they weren't suicide bombers?

67 posted on 04/20/2002 6:17:46 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot
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To: tomahawk
you make a good point which the media conveniently forget....the IDF gave the residents a clear warning. "massacre" is more attention grabbing, thank goodness some of us know the truth.
68 posted on 04/20/2002 6:20:30 AM PDT by contessa machiaveli
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To: Toddsterpatriot
It has been reported that children were killed when they climbed on rubble that had booby traps imbedded. There is no suggestion that this was planted there by Israeli's.
69 posted on 04/20/2002 6:20:41 AM PDT by OldFriend
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To: Jurist
Four steps in a clinton lie:

Step 1 - spin.

Step 2- let the "royalty" repeat the spin.

Step 3 - let the press spread the spin.

Step 4 - say it enough times, until the people believe it.

70 posted on 04/20/2002 6:21:19 AM PDT by ghostrider
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To: Jurist
Too bad the bloody terrorists forgot to bring their cameras into the camp along with the guns and explosives. Knowing the blood thirsty Jews, it would be fairly easy to get a picture of them doing what they always do. There's a blackout on both sides, but no one asks why. The only thing we get are interviews and claims. Surely the clever terrorists realise that it is better to bomb the Israelis with one or two eloquent and horrible pictures of their blood lust and cruelty, than to kill oneself on the off chance you can get a soldier or two. Come on Jurist, ask questions of both sides. Maybe this would be more believable if all those Human rights organisations had been on board to comdemn the homicide bombers and what was happeing in Israel. Remember Durban?

Oh, and if you want to see the template for the World's reaction to the War on Terror, just watch Israel. Silence and lack of condemnation for attacks, coordinated condemantion of response. Kind of reminds me of the Spanish Civil War. A tune-up for bigger struggles.

regards

71 posted on 04/20/2002 6:25:36 AM PDT by okiedust
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To: Motherhood IS a career
Terrorists deserve to die, any time, anywhere, any way. (And please don't tell me about the women and children being innocent!) Unless there's direct and devastating retaliation, none of us will be safe.

I agree with you. All Arab terrorists and those who support them should be eliminated.

Richard W.

72 posted on 04/20/2002 6:25:49 AM PDT by arete
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To: MeeknMing;jurist;johniegrad
...in the Palestinian Authority schools, they teach their children about the glories of martyrdom; indeed, the careers guidance counsellor appears to have little information on alternative employment prospects...

Maybe because there aren't any. When peole have nothing to live for, suicide bombing makes perfect sense.

73 posted on 04/20/2002 6:27:28 AM PDT by Arleigh
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To: OldFriend
Snippet from Israel National News:
Foreign Ministry officials questioned why Larsen did not take the trouble to investigate any of the reports, opting to accept information from PA sources without any Israeli verification. They ask why he failed to mention the reason for the military incursion in his disturbing report and the fact that homes were booby-trapped and in most cases, blown up by their own bombs. Ministry officials questioned where Larsen and “his humanitarian colleagues” were when homicide bombers blew up the Dolphinarium Disco in Tel Aviv, the massacre at the seder service in the Park Hotel in Netanya and when the Sbarro Restaurant was blown up in Jerusalem.


I wouldn't be surprised if that "about 12-year-old boy" had deadly intent. I've seen what these miscreants teach their children.
74 posted on 04/20/2002 6:27:28 AM PDT by grimalkin
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To: Jurist


The engineer


Al-Ahram Weekly | 18 - 24 April 2002 | Jonathan Cook
Posted on 4/20/02 12:50 AM Eastern by Henk


The 'engineer'

An engineer of the fiercest battle waged by the Palestinians during the invasion of the West Bank spoke to Jonathan Cook about the days of defiance in Jenin

Omar sits restlessly on his chair in the safe-house. He is an "engineer" from Jenin refugee camp: one of the revered bomb-makers from the City of the Bombers. To the Israelis he is the most lethal, and wanted, of terrorists. The poison from the Cobra's head.

We meet late last Thursday, hours after he escaped from the camp as Israeli soldiers took control of the area. We are still close enough to Jenin that we can see the constant stream of illumination flares, three launched by the army at a time, that light up the soldiers' dark work in the city below.

But Omar will not be staying here long. He is going to ground deeper in the West Bank before regrouping with his comrades from Jenin.

There may not be too many. Even according to Israeli army sources, at least a hundred fighters were killed and hundreds more wounded and captured during the eight days of savage fighting.

Omar will not give his name or age. He is slim, in his mid-20s, with a closely cropped beard. He is a member of Islamic Jihad, but says in Jenin all the factions were loyal to only one cause: liberation or death.

Visible beneath a blue bomber jacket is the tightly bandaged stump of his right arm, the end of which he rubs distractedly.

How did he lose it? During the previous invasion of Jenin by the Israeli army several weeks ago, he says. He was hiding with only his arm visible as he tried to throw a 'kwa' -- a home-made pipe bomb -- at a tank. Shrapnel from a shell severed it, he says.

But as a bomb-maker, one of the most highly respected positions in the Palestinian resistance, he could equally have lost the arm in less glorious circumstances: in one of the explosions that are a professional hazard of his job.

Omar admits he is one of only a few dozen fighters not to emerge either dead or in plastic handcuffs from the fiercest battle waged by the Palestinians during the Israeli army's invasion of the West Bank.

Of his group of 30 gunmen, only four escaped from the camp on Wednesday, after the Palestinian arsenal ran dry. Most of the others were shot dead.

"Of all the fighters in the West Bank we were the best prepared," he says. "We started working on our plan: to trap the invading soldiers and blow them up from the moment the Israeli tanks pulled out of Jenin last month."

Omar and other "engineers" made hundreds of explosive devices and carefully chose their locations.

"We had more than 50 houses booby-trapped around the camp. We chose old and empty buildings and the houses of men who were wanted by Israel because we knew the soldiers would search for them," he said.

"We cut off lengths of mains water pipes and packed them with explosives and nails. Then we placed them about four metres apart throughout the houses -- in cupboards, under sinks, in sofas."

The fighters hoped to disable the Israeli army's tanks with much more powerful bombs placed inside rubbish bins on the street. More explosives were hidden inside the cars of Jenin's most wanted men.

Connected by wires, the bombs were set off remotely, triggered by the current from a car battery.

According to Omar, everyone in the camp, including the children, knew where the explosives were located so that there was no danger of civilians being injured. It was the one weakness in the plan.

"We were betrayed by the spies among us," he says. The wires to more than a third of the bombs were cut by soldiers accompanied by collaborators. "If it hadn't been for the spies, the soldiers would never have been able to enter the camp. Once they penetrated the camp, it was much harder to defend."

And what about the explosion and ambush last Tuesday which killed 13 soldiers?

"They were lured there," he says. "We all stopped shooting and the women went out to tell the soldiers that we had run out of bullets and were leaving." The women alerted the fighters as the soldiers reached the booby- trapped area.

"When the senior officers realised what had happened, they shouted through megaphones that they wanted an immediate cease-fire. We let them approach to retrieve the men and then opened fire.

"Some of the soldiers were so shocked and frightened that they mistakenly ran towards us."

On Wednesday, after the fighters ran out of ammunition, he says, armoured vehicles roamed the streets calling out to them in Arabic: "You are finished and can't win against us. We are more powerful than you. Surrender."

He saw one fighter who went down to the street with his hands in the air shot dead by snipers. He chose to flee the camp, although he will not say how.

Using his left arm, Omar shot a revolver during the gun battles.

With a new intensity on his face, he leans forward to ask a question. Do I think the doctors will be able to give him a strong new artificial arm with fingers he can operate. I don't know, I say. Why?

"Because I want to be able to hold a heavy rifle again. That way I can kill more Israeli soldiers. It's that or become a suicide bomber

 

 


 

It's time to snap out of Arab fantasy land {Steyn}


National Post | April 19 2002 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 4/19/02 10:01 AM Eastern by iav2

It's time to snap out of Arab fantasy land

Mark Steyn - National Post

So what do you think of this Israeli "massacre" at the Jenin refugee camp?

In the British accounts of the alleged worst human-rights atrocity since, oh, the Dutch took charge at Srebrenica, you can't help noticing a curious sameness. All reports rely on the same couple of eyewitnesses -- "Kamal Anis, a labourer" (The Times), "A quiet, sad-looking young man called Kamal Anis" (The Independent), "Kamal Anis, 28" (The Daily Telegraph) -- and the same handful of victims -- "A man named only as Bashar once lived there" (The Telegraph), "the burned remains of a man, Bashar" (The Evening Standard), "Bashir died in agony" (The Times). You'd think with so many thousands massacred there'd be a bigger selection of victims and distraught loved ones, wouldn't you? But apparently not. I do hope Fleet Street's herd-like experts aren't falling for the old native spin machine yet again -- cf. "the mighty Pashtun warrior, humbler of empires"; "the brutal Afghan winter"; etc.

"All British officials tend to become pro-Arab, or, perhaps, more accurately anti- Jew," wrote Sir John Hope-Simpson in the 1920s wrapping up a stint in the British Mandate of Palestine. "Personally, I can quite well understand this trait. The helplessness of the fellah appeals to the British official. The offensive assertion of the Jewish immigrant is, on the other hand, repellent." Progressive humanitarianism, as much as old-school colonialism, prefers its clientele "helpless," and, despite Iranian weaponry and Iraqi money and the human sacrifice of its schoolchildren, the Palestinians have been masters at selling their "helplessness" to the West.

Odd, isn't it? The Americans are routinely accused of being (in Pat Buchanan's phrase) Israel's amen corner. But Washington is at least prepared to offer the odd, qualified criticism of Sharon. The rest of the world, by contrast, is happy to parrot Yasser's talking points without modifying a single semi-colon. In the last month, I've found as many Jew-haters on the Continent as in the Middle East, but the difference is that the Arabs are fierce in their hatred, no matter how contorted their arguments, while the Europeans are lazy, off-hand Jew-haters -- they don't need arguments, they're happy to let the Arabs supply the script. Thus, the extraordinary resolution this week by the UN Human Rights Commission which accuses Israel of many and varied human rights violations, makes no mention of suicide bombers, and endorses the movement for a Palestinian state by "all available means, including armed struggle" -- i.e., terrorism. The resolution could have been drafted by the Arab League or the PLO. Forty of the 53 nations on the Commission approved it, including six EU members: Austria, Belgium, France, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. Only five countries could summon the will to vote against: Britain, Canada, Germany, the Czech Republic and Guatemala. (The U.S. is not a member of the HRC, having been kicked off by a coalition of Euro-Arab schemers.)

This is only the most extreme example of how the less sense the Arabs make the more the debate is framed in their terms. For all the tedious bleating of the Euroninnies, what Israel is doing is perfectly legal. Even if you sincerely believe that "Chairman" Arafat is entirely blameless when it comes to the suicide bombers, when a neighbouring jurisdiction is the base for hostile incursions, a sovereign state has the right of hot pursuit. Britain has certainly availed herself of this internationally recognized principle: In the 19th century, when the Fenians launched raids on Canada from upstate New York, the British thought nothing of infringing American sovereignty to hit back -- and Washington accepted they were entitled to do so. But the rights every other sovereign state takes for granted are denied to Israel. "The Jews are a peculiar people: things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews," wrote America's great longshoreman philosopher Eric Hoffer after the 1967 war. "Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people and there is no refugee problem ... But everyone insists that Israel must take back every single Arab ... Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious it must sue for peace. Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world." Thus, the massive population displacements in Europe at the end of the Second World War are forever, but those in Palestine a mere three years later must be corrected and reversed. On the Continent, losing wars comes with a territorial price: The Germans aren't going to be back in Danzig any time soon. But, in the Middle East, no matter how often the Arabs attack Israel and lose, their claims to their lost territory manage to be both inviolable but endlessly transferable.

So even the so-called "two-state solution" subscribes to an Arafatist view of the situation. Creating yet another fetid Arab dictatorship in the West Bank would be, technically, a "three-state solution" and, indeed, a second Palestinian state, Jordan, whose population has always been majority Palestinian. It was created in the original "two-state settlement" 80 years ago, when the British partitioned their new Mandate of Palestine, carving off the western three-quarters into a territory called "Transjordan" and keeping the surviving eastern quarter under the name "Palestine." They did this for two reasons: First, they needed to stop one of the Hashemite boys, Abdullah, from marching on Syria and the best they could come up with was to halt him in Amman and suggest he serve as interim governor; but secondly, Churchill, as Colonial Secretary, thought the fairest way to fulfill Britain's pledges to both Arabs and Jews during the Great War was by confining Zionists to a Jewish National Home west of the Jordan and creating a separate Arab entity in Palestine east of the Jordan. The only thing he got wrong was the names: If instead of inventing the designation "Transjordan," he'd just called the eastern territory "Palestine" and the west "Israel" (or "Judah"), the Arafatist claim would be a much tougher sell.

The Zionists have been trading "land for peace" ever since the Great War, and the result is they've got hardly any land and less peace than ever before. As early as 1921, Chaim Weizmann wrote to Churchill protesting the ever shrinking borders of the potential Jewish homeland. To the north, Britain had surrendered traditionally Palestinian land to France in fixing the Mandate's border with Lebanon and Syria and, by giving the eastern three-quarters to Abdullah, had removed the rich fields of Gilead, Moab and Edom. The 1947 UN Partition took more land -- a partition of the previous partition -- but the Zionists accepted it. In 1993, Oslo was the biggest gamble yet, the creation of a mini-fiefdom for their bloodiest enemy. The "Palestinian Authority" was an unlikely bet for a state but, from Arafat's point of view, it would make an ideal launch-point from which to kill Jews in the very heart of their tiny sliver of territory.

Other than that, what's the point? I'm sure the Middle East can always use another squalid corrupt dictatorship, but at the very least it ought to be a viable squalid corrupt dictatorship. An Arafatist squat on the West Bank and Gaza would be insufficient. If Israel is, to the French, a "shitty little country," this would be littler and shittier. Therefore, Arafat would seek to augment it with territory from either west or east, Israel or Jordan. The likelihood is that he'd be able to destabilize Jordan far more quickly than he could destroy Israel. If it's a choice between an Arafat sewer straddling the Jordan River or the Hashemites, I know which I'd prefer.

Israel should take what it needs of the West Bank for a buffer, round up every terrorist it can, and announce that the Jordanians are welcome to what's left. If King Abdullah doesn't want it and chooses to call in the UN blue helmets in perpetuity, so be it. But the last eight years should have taught Israel that it cannot live within its 1967 borders next to a thug statelet whose sole purpose is to liquidate it. The Arabs have succeeded in luring the West into their bizarro alternative universe, where land lost by a foolish king is mysteriously transformed into the personal property of a terrorist organization, where the "armed struggle" of wired schoolgirls is UN-approved, and where the "right to exist" is something to be negotiated. Fantasy land is fun, but we've encouraged the Arabs in their peculiar dementias for too long. It's time to get real.


75 posted on 04/20/2002 6:28:35 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: Jurist
WRAPUP 5 - Israel accepts U.N. probe of shattered Jenin camp  
alt alt
alt
    By Matt Spetalnick 
    JENIN, West Bank, April 20 (Reuters) - Israel pledged on 
Saturday to cooperate with a U.N. mission to probe its crushing 
assault on the Jenin refugee camp and said it had nothing to 
hide in the face of Palestinian accusations of a massacre. 
    Palestinians said they hoped the U.N. Security Council's 
unanimous decision on Friday to send a "fact-finding" team to 
the camp could lead to an international criminal trial of 
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and other senior figures.

CONTINUE...

76 posted on 04/20/2002 6:29:28 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Motherhood IS a career
A little angry? You bet I am. Terrorists deserve to die, any time, anywhere, any way. (And please don't tell me about the women and children being innocent!) Unless there's direct and devastating retaliation, none of us will be safe.

I'm with you. And now that the women and children are strapping bombs onto their bodies and blowing up civilians, they can be treated just like any other terrorist. I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Israel has the green light from me to do what they must.

77 posted on 04/20/2002 6:29:49 AM PDT by Anamensis
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To: dennisw
Hey, does anyone remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait, and some teenaged girl testified in D.C. (before some committee of politicians or other) that the Iraqi soldiers were coming into the hospitals and turning over incubators and throwing newborn babies onto the floor to die, and that she had seen these things with her own eyes? Then it turned out later that she was the daughter of a Kuwaiti diplomat hired by an advertising firm, she didn't even live in Kuwait, wasn't there when it happened, and the stories were completely made up? I remember this.... I think the "Jenin massacre" is more incubator propaganda.
78 posted on 04/20/2002 6:34:29 AM PDT by Anamensis
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To: Arleigh
When peole have nothing to live for, suicide bombing makes perfect sense

What would you suggest, a JihadiCorps program? BTW, suicide runs counter to the natural drive to live. It never makes "perfect sense".

79 posted on 04/20/2002 6:35:57 AM PDT by johniegrad
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To: All
Could someone help me out here? When they are promised 72 virgins, do they all have to be female, or even human? Also, now that there are girls being used as suicide bombers, are they running out of virgins in paridise?
80 posted on 04/20/2002 6:35:57 AM PDT by folklore
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