Replies

Mm, I don't know; it's an okay article. He does make some good points. But it is so long and rambling, and traditionalistic. Sounds like a typical Charismatic: everything is prayer, the Bible's a pretty good supplement. (I exaggerate for emphasis, though not that much.) It's not good that seminaries turn out men who know the Word but not God.

Well, I find that 'way over-simplified and not really true. Seminaries don't stress Biblical sciences as much as they used to, as a matter of fact. And you can't KNOW GOD without knowing THE WORD OF GOD, which is the only means by which God has opened His mind.

This exalting of prayer to a magical force bothers me. That isn't the role the Bible gives it. Prayer, in fact, has NO power whatever. Only God has power. Find me ONE VERSE ascribing power to prayer, and I'll find TEN ascribing power to the Word of God.

In fact, ever hear this one? "When a man turns away his ear from hearing the Law, Even his prayer is an abomination" (Proverbs 28:9, from memory).

Oh well, some of my own thoughts, much briefer than Ravenhill's.

Dan
Biblical Christianity web site
Biblical Christianity message board

The question is not whether they know the Word of God. The question is: DO THEY KNOW THE GOD OF THE WORD? Just to give a man a license to preach because he has so much academic ability is like giving a blind man a driving license. If he doesn't know God, why is he in this business?! We have to make up our minds if this Book is absolute or obsolete. It's either got the answer for our generation or forget it. We have to make up our minds that preaching is not a profession, it's a passion.

I don't know how to respond to this Winston..there are parts with which I agree and parts with which I do not..I would agree there are men in our pulpits that do not know the God of the Bible..they know the god of mans imagination.

I once herad it said the bible was written for believers...that the unsaved are not able to understand it....perhaps that is the reason there is no passion for the gospel in our churches

As I have shared with you privately that IMHO I believe we have seen all the revival we are going to....tis time for the "great falling away "and the deception of the church ..But to be honest I will leave that to God :>)

I rather liked the article despite some of its charismatic-sounding descriptions.

Where I don't especially agree is the emphasis on revival. It seems to me that revival, like the miserably failed Graham crusades, have become an obsession in the modern church. The revival brings in the revival preacher and the revival organizations and contributes to the general obsession with megachurch building. So much of the most visible workings of modern churches come down to mass media presence, fundraising, church buildings, attendance in the thousands, writing/selling books.

God may take some very unusual action to convert men and bring them to Christ. But I'm not certain we should expect miraculous events of Biblical proportions to prove to us that a particular church is a true church of Christ. In the end, it's much more about our faith and God's direction in our lives than it is about where we gather on Sunday mornings.

The notion that we should expect our churches to resemble those of the church of Acts seems a little strange. I believe that God took a special action there, just as He took a special action to convert Paul and to intervene at Pentecost, because the ancient churches could not be allowed to fail. The Lord's will was accomplished in starting his church. The Bible does not teach us that the Lord's extraordinary actions in those times are something we should expect today.

If we assume that we attend a false church because it does not match the accounts of the ancient churches, then it seems we are asking for problems. This is the general problem with the Pentecostal/charistmatic churches. They have an anachronistic view of the Church age, one which demands a peculiar reading of the Gospels unknown until about 1900.

When these charismatics can raise the dead and walk through a hospital healing and can speak in unknown tongues and convert people, then we should take them more seriously. Until they can do this, then these claims are very suspect and should be considered unscriptural.

I'd also point out that if you believe we are in the end times, then there will be no revival, only a falling away from scriptural truth. This will happen within the churches. The Bible tells us that the Lord will not come again without there first being a great falling away. It says that the Gospel will be preached to the entire world and it says there will be a great falling away. Then Christ will return. Where exactly do people get this ubiquitous notion that revival will precede Christ's return? Does anyone know how this apparently unscriptural notion gained such currency in modern Christian thought?

Given what we see of the modern churches, many of them very doctrinally sound until the last few decades, doesn't it seem that we are much more in the falling away period, a time when men will not endure sound teaching or biblical doctrine, when the church will be led by the apostate and the reprobate?

I guess I see things moving that way and I don't expect revival. It's very difficult to see how revival would come to America or Europe. I'm not saying that anyone should stop preaching. But to expect or demand revival as an indication that God is out there or is blessing a church or a Christian seems to me to be wrongheaded.

If we are in the end times, there will be a certain revival. It will be the revival of the churches of the Antichrist, as they move into global unity to serve his satanic purpose. The unsaved will flock to the former Christian churches who have turned to follow the Antichrist. That seems to me to be the revival anyone is going to see in America. And there are plenty of false preachers and false churches just waiting to welcome them into "fellowship".

Even after the events of 9/11, does it seem to have drawn many apostate churches back to the teachings of the Word?

So, which of the two scenarios I'm outlining seems more scriptural and more in line with what any of us can observe? Are we on the verge of some great revival? Or is it the falling away?

Sorry to be so long but I thought some of you might like to discuss this revival issue.