Posted on 11/01/2001 5:41:13 AM PST by CommiesOut
Ah, but they are and that is the problem. The CIA is f**king up this campaign just like they did in VN. Its the CIA bureacrats that are trying to piece together a ruling regime, before our military has a chance to take out the old one. Initially it was the military plan to align with the NA in Afghanistan, who were making great strides during the first week of Oct 7th, thousands of Taliban were defecting to the NA. Then the CIA let it be known that there were working on restoring the old Afghan King to restore order and put together a ruling regime that did not include the NA.
Now the NA has lost any incentive to fight with the USA. They are merely dragging their feet, doing just enough so that the US will continue to arm them. This may come back to haunt us when we have engaged a large ground force. Nothing worse than trying to fight two enemies at the same time, in the same area. Just like the Viet Cong, during VNam.
My thoughts exactly! Now we know why McFarlane's been all over the media pissing and moaning about how ineffectual the military operation has been.
Nevertheless, my guess is that there is friction between the CIA and DoD. When Rumsfeld was being interviewed by Cookie Roberts last Sunday, he made it a point to acknowledge that Haq was offered help by the US, and that that help was not help provided by the military..."another government agency," or words to that effect--clearly, he was referring to the CIA.
I'm surprised that Tenet's still in there. With all the leaks that have gotten into the press about how his star has fallen, one would think that the axe would have come down by now. Maybe they're waiting for Rudy to finish his tenure as mayor of NYC...
I don't know who Hasenfus is but would be interested in knowing.
But I think you're right on about McFarlane and Novak. It should have been quite obvious to Haq that the CIA wasn't interested in his little publicity trip. Even *I* would have figgered it out given that they were only willing to provide him with a cell phone and then only to track his movements. Still the guy ventured into a war zone with his little donkeys and what the heck did he expect? People get killed doing stuff like this.
And I don't give two sniffs about Novak's contention that the CIA was all interested in Haq and wanting him to make the trip. So they showed a passing interest which they evidently immediately dismissed. This is hardly to be interpreted as some sort of endorsement.
Novak's image has dropped considerably by my estimation by this load of self-serving claptrap.
And if it isn't the domestic alphabet soup groups screwing around with the world, then it's radical Muslims stealing passenger planes and flying them into office buildings...
lol.
I'm not sure I see your point. The _real world_ IS a kind of wholistic mish-mash of conspiracy theories. They are the rule, not the exception. It's the people who don't worry about conspiracy theories who are living in a fantasy land. It might be less tiring to pretend conspiracies don't exist, but, then, if you're going to live in a fantasy world, why not just imagine that all those girls from Victoria's Secret catalogue are actual conservative groupies and secretly tracking down Freeper guys for wild nights of debauchery...
Mark W.
P.S. Why hasn't a nice conservative single guy like you been snatched up yet? There are lots of matchmakers here on FR - and we need to get to work.
Nation building and politics do not co-exist with a well waged military action. We saw that in VN and again in Mogudishu. We prevailed in the Gulf war because we followed a well thought out and defined objective and did not waver. Thank God no CIA were involved in that campaign, otherwise we'd have lost that one too. Politics did come into play at the end of the Gulf War and that is what saved Saddam's ass. But the military was able to do its job and did it decisevily.
Our objective here should be to exact a price against OBL his Al Qaeda and the Taliban who harbor him, NOTHING else until the military objective is accomplished.
And if we decide we don't want the NA to be part of that government? I guess you won't mind fighting the same war all over again in a couple years?
"Nation building and politics do not co-exist with a well waged military action."
Nonsense. Military actions, well waged or otherwise, do not take place in a vacuum nor should they. Military action is an instrument of policy and frequently that policy entails nation building.
And as everyone knows they would never act on their own,
then lie about it.
What I see happening now is something good military planners try hard to avoid--- Mission Creep. It is the expansion beyond the original mission that causes inadequate and poorly selected forces to be used in ways that seriously endanger them and the mission.
What we want is the bad guys dead, and the folks that replace them well behaved. We shouldn't give a rats a$$ who runs the Afghan government so long as they behave.
REMEMBER VIETNAM!
REMEMBER KOSOVO! CIA SUCKING UP TO BIN LADEN + KLA "FREEDOM FIGHTERS" WITH ARMS AND AMMO AND US AIR STRIKES AGAINST CHRISTIAN SERBS.
BWHAAAAAA!!!!
Now they're bound and determined to screw up this campaign too.
IF THE CIA WAS A BUSINESS IT WOULD HAVE GONE OUT OF BUSINESS AFTER THE CUBAN FIASCO.
(sorry about the caps)
Class, methinks nobody's paying attention again.
I agree. This war can only be one with cooperation with the locals, in particular since bin Laden is a foreigner in their midst who got them nothing but trouble. It is possible that the CIA had its obscure to us reasons to mistrust Haq, but on the face of it, the failure to back him up looks like a mistake.
Initially it was the attitude of the Afghans that we were justified in pursuing OBL and his Al Qaeda and even the Taliban and were in fact resolved to that, now the attitude is changing, because we are changing our objectives. We appear to now be meddling into THEIR affairs and who is best to rule them.
Anyway, I'm not saying that politics are not needed to formulate a new government, but to accomplish our military objectives first and foremost, then let the UN or who else try to put together the pieces. Our job now is to kill and break things PERIOD.
Apparently you have never been in combat, where your ass is on the line, and every decision must be passed thru the CIA and other intelligence agencies. Where your unit has a company of NVA cornered, out of ammo and supplies, and can be destroyed to the man, only to be told to stand down because the CIA has a double agent in that unit. This is the kind of shit I'm talking about.
The fact that OBL and Omar could have been taken out 3 days after the start of the bombing, and wasn't due to no one being able to make the decision, unless a JAG officer approved of it. Had we accomplished taking out of just Omar, it would have just about ended the conflict, more so if OBL was also taken out. But I believe that it was a CIA/Political dicision to in fact NOT take them out, because it would have ended their plans to put in place their puppet government.
But I seem to feel that the missing point here (and correct me if I missed it) is that just because Haq was in touch with the CIA for months does not mean that they were condoning and working with his recent exploit of going into Afghanistan.
I get the distinct impression that Haq was wanting to do this and was just wanting the US to back him up.
Once can't run a war and be responsible for every Lone Ranger that "has a plan."
Loosing Haq is a terrible thing. But I think, from what I have read so far, that Haq owns a great deal of ownership in getting himself killed by acting on his own and NOT doing this with his back covered.
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