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To: TwelveOfTwenty

“They saw how we talked about American values like capitalism and God, but sent our manufacturing, technology, and money to a communist nation that oppresses the church just to save a few pennies”

There was a period where we thought that the Chinese were going to slowly transition away from authoritarianism and be more like postwar Germany, Japan and South Korea. So it wasn’t only about cost, it was about opportunities.

We’re in the same position now with the middle east and Russia.

It’s obvious that Putin has for 15 years been far more interested in creating an authoritarian gangsterist empire on the Warsaw Pact and USSR footprint through conquest, than in coming in from the cold.

The EU tried for fifteen years to look the other way and downplay Russian aggression in the hope of a change of heart, but Europe now needs to accept that currently any peace with Russia utterly depends on western Europe screwing over far more reliable allies further east.

Anyone reading the Russian demands to NATO from December 2021 can see the intention; Russia wanted NATO to leave all countries east of Germany open to Russian interference if not outright invasion. The Kremlin reiterated these demands in the spring 2022 negotiations. Yes, Boris Johnson told Zelenskyy these terms were unacceptable but only a Russian stooge cannot see that he was speaking for all of EU NATO members and its Nordic partners when he said it.

The USA needs to think like that too and get out of the bad habit of thinking NATO is ONLY there for the benefit of the USA. The USA remains the only NATO country to invoke Article 5, and when it called, EU NATO answered. The EU NATO countries need to pick up their share of the tab, Trump was right on that, but EU NATO keeps Russia looking at “enemies” westward instead of turning its attention fully eastward.

There’s no point the USA getting directly involved in cultural conflicts with Russia, the Middle East or China, but if Five Eyes and NATO don’t stand firm together, sooner or later Russia and China will attack us through our weakest links. Hoping they attack Europe instead of the USA is poor strategy.


41 posted on 11/09/2023 5:44:42 AM PST by MalPearce ("You see, but you do not observe" - Holmes to Watson, A Scandal in Bohemia)
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To: MalPearce
There was a period where we thought that the Chinese were going to slowly transition away from authoritarianism and be more like postwar Germany, Japan and South Korea. So it wasn’t only about cost, it was about opportunities.

The problem with that is that Bush and the GOP gave them permanent MFN status AFTER they had stolen our technology during the Clinton years. We knew what they were up to, but we sent our manufacturing, technology, and money over there anyway.

Hoping they (Russia and China) attack Europe instead of the USA is poor strategy.

Sending our manufacturing, technology, and money to China was an even worse strategy. The American tax payers that were paying into our infrastructure and military were replaced by Chinese workers that are paying into their infrastructure and military. Meanwhile, we have to borrow to keep our economy from crashing and raise our debt ceiling just to pay the interest on our debt. What kind of a strategy is that?

57 posted on 11/09/2023 3:13:01 PM PST by TwelveOfTwenty (Will whoever keeps asking if this country can get any more insane please stop?)
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