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To: anthropocene_x
Stockman seems to have missed the point that Russia guaranteed Ukraine's security in return for Ukraine relinquishing their nukes. Then Putin instigated and supported separatist movements in east Ukraine, which in turn got Ukrainians looking to the EU and NATO for help. Current Russian demands are to the effect that NATO must remove all forces and terminate new NATO members so as to respect the region of the former Warsaw Pact as a permanent Russian sphere of influence. Those demands and the Russian attack on Ukraine is what has reinvigorated NATO, not Western arms marketing.
5 posted on 08/20/2023 5:42:09 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham
In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Why NATO Has Become an Enemy of Peace and Security Around the World, Rockingham wrote:
Stockman seems to have missed the point that Russia guaranteed Ukraine's security in return for Ukraine relinquishing their nukes. Then Putin instigated and supported separatist movements in east Ukraine, which in turn got Ukrainians looking to the EU and NATO for help. Current Russian demands are to the effect that NATO must remove all forces and terminate new NATO members so as to respect the region of the former Warsaw Pact as a permanent Russian sphere of influence. Those demands and the Russian attack on Ukraine is what has reinvigorated NATO, not Western arms marketing.

Actually, there are a few more details that matter. Below are a few examples.

1. Russia went to the UN to request an investigation to the 50 UNited States bio labs (Including Biden's Metabiota) located in the Ukraine. Russia says they are bio warfare labs and wanted the investigation to prove it. Russia also says those American bio labs are tailoring bio warfare agents, releasing pathogens and conducting unauthorized tests on soldiers.

The UN, the US, Germany et. al. refused any investigation and vented their contempt on what they said was Russia's 'baseless' charges (sound familiar?)

So when Russia began the conflict, some of the initial strikes were on bio warfare lab locations identified as 'military facilities'.

Given that the UN refused to investigate, a move that could have proven there were no bio warfare labs present had the UN wanted to do so, Russia had another reason to invade.

I went looking for Russia's UN petition. The only place I could find any details about Putins UN petition was on the Russia.gov website. I posted a thread for that information here:

Irina Yarovaya presented the outcome report of the Parliamentary Commission on Investigation into Activities of the US Biological Laboratories in Ukraine PLUS MY COMMENTS

Well, as Russia believed the bio warfare labs were targeting Russians with bio agents and the international community refused to listen, I can see why he took action. I would not want China cooking toxic pathogens on our border and testing it on people.

2. Next - the western side of Ukraine was shelling the eastern side of Ukraine, despite making an agreement to stop doing so. The reason is ethnic cleansing - Western Ukraine is Ukrainian dominant and Eastern Ukraine has/had a significant population of ethnically Russian citizens. Agreements with Russia to stop the West from killing those of Russian ethnicity living in the east failed with the West shelling ethnically Russian civilians in the East, so there was another provocation.

3. Water to the Crimea was another key driver - the Ukraine cut off water to the Crimea. Starving the region of water was never going to be accepted by Putin, and the Ukrainians knew that. Wars have been fought over water before.

Ironically, it's NATO that is trying to expand its control world-wide. They want regime change in Russia and this proxy war was supposed to do the job.


7 posted on 08/20/2023 6:00:10 PM PDT by ransomnote (IN GOD WE TRUST)
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To: Rockingham
Then Putin instigated and supported separatist movements in east Ukraine

You always leave out that coup part, don't you?

9 posted on 08/20/2023 6:04:40 PM PDT by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: Rockingham
Stockman seems to have missed the point that Russia guaranteed Ukraine's security in return for Ukraine relinquishing their nukes.

I’m not sure this is correct. Ukraine never “had” any nuclear arms. They were Soviet arms that happened to be situated in Ukraine. Ukraine really didn’t have any say in the matter.

If Florida seceded from the U.S., it would be ludicrous to think they’d have any standing to dictate the terms of what the U.S. Navy must do with the assets it has at the Jacksonville Naval Air Station.

15 posted on 08/20/2023 7:31:56 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (“Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.”)
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To: Rockingham
Stockman seems to have missed the point that Russia guaranteed Ukraine's security in return for Ukraine relinquishing their nukes. Then Putin instigated and supported separatist movements in east Ukraine, which in turn got Ukrainians looking to the EU and NATO for help. Current Russian demands are to the effect that NATO must remove all forces and terminate new NATO members so as to respect the region of the former Warsaw Pact as a permanent Russian sphere of influence. Those demands and the Russian attack on Ukraine is what has reinvigorated NATO, not Western arms marketing.

Yes, and Russia still supports Cuba as an ally right on our doorstep.

Venezuela is an ally of Russia and China.

Nicaragua is an ally of Russia and China.

18 posted on 08/20/2023 7:51:27 PM PDT by marktwain
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