[lump in the melting pot]

...a hostile country to Russia due to their demands for nuclear weapons and inclusion into NATO...

As signatories to the Budapest Memorandum, Ukraine VOLUNTARILY gave up nuclear weapons in exchange for assurances for territorial integrity from russia (and now we see what those assurances were worth). As for NATO, it's an alliance to protect its members from russian invasion, so it's really a mystery why a country who russia has been systematically expropriating territory from since 2014 might want to join up. Maybe if russia didn't want NATO on its border, they shouldn't be such hostile aggressive assholes as to goad Sweden and Finland of all places to clamor to join.

[BobL]

I guess what Westerners don’t seem to fully comprehend (although they are learning it now) is that Russia considers Ethnic Russians and Russian-Language speakers to also be worthy of defending. And it’s understandable that we haven’t yet figured it out, as we still have 1000 or so Americans trapped and abandoned in Afghanistan, and had the same happen with our allies around the world, since WW2.

So, for 24 years, things were fine in Ukraine, and PUTIN didn’t do anything cute, even though he could have, easily.

But things changed for the Russians there, as the Azovs went on the offensive and PUTIN had to decide whether to let the the Russians be massacred and/or driven out of their homelands (where they go back hundreds of years), or defend his fellow Russians. And, unlike Biden (who supports this ethnic cleansing), PUTIN defends his ‘country-mates’.

[BobL]

As far as Finland and Sweden go, God only knows what they’re thinking. Finland agreed to be neutral during the Cold War, and was never attacked (and the Soviets were much more aggressive than Russia) and Finland prospered. Sweden somewhat similar.

Now they have the worst of both worlds, as they’re no longer neutral but are find the door slammed in their faces, due to legitimate Turkish concerns. They must feel like TOTAL IDIOTS in doing what the Neocons, obviously, demanded.

[Ultra Sonic 007]

People need to stop bringing up the Budapest Memorandum as though it's relevant.

Ukraine gave up the nukes in their possession in exchange for sovereignty, not in exchange for guarantees of territorial integrity. Neither Russia nor America were willing to recognize Ukraine as an independent nation until they agreed to become a non-nuclear nation.