Posted on 01/18/2020 5:21:28 PM PST by nickcarraway
Russia’s defense ministry accuses Armia Krayova of ‘destroying Jews’ in Warsaw, amid feud with Poland over war’s history
Russia’s defense ministry on Friday accused the Polish resistance movement that staged the Warsaw uprising of 1944 of “destroying Jews,” in the latest salvo of Moscow’s feud with Poland over WWII history.
The accusations were posted with a trove of declassified documents called “Warsaw Under Fire” on the 75th anniversary of Soviet forces’ taking the city after more than five years of occupation by Nazi Germany.
The Russian defense ministry published a multimedia website Friday to mark the anniversary with scans of documents about Nazi concentration camps, photos and lengthy reports by Soviet officers.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesofisrael.com ...
Never would have happened.
Aha, you've been called in complete falsehood. The Western Allies wanted to aid Poland, and the Soviets refused their request to use their airbases, despite the fact the Allies were doing everything imaginable to help the Soviets.
That is no fact at all. The Russians were set up to win by the Allies doing and providing everything for them, including allowing them to fight a one front war. The Russians were at the brink of defeat because of their leader, Stalin, who was a Nazi collaborationist, and had many more Russians before the war, then died in the war.
You did not answer. I am from the U.S. state of California. What Oblast are you from?
The Soviets told the Poles they would be aiding them, then blocked their own allies from using their airbases.
You are barking up the wrong tree. Comrade will not recognize the Russians ever made any mistake.
What you said is correct. But also note, Stalin was responsible for more Russian deaths than Nazi Germany was.
I guess you disagree with Russian annexation of Crimea but then based on your very same logic Russia has right to annex not only Crimea which is historically more Russian but all the Ukraine and Poland on top of it.
I have no problem with Russia annexing Crimea. After all, it only became part of the Ukraine, because Khrushchev decided it should be one day. But Poland and the Ukraine were fighting over territory before. Poland was no more aggressive than Ukraine. You never seem to mention the territories the Ukraine took that were parts of Hungary and Romania?
Your philosophy seems to be: 1. Russia is always right. 2. Ukrained is right against every country except Russia. 3. Poland is always wrong. Russia is always right.
I am from the U.S. state of California. What Oblast are yo from?
I think it was not so much to avoid doing it themselves, as much as to make sure any potential government of Poland besides ones they controlled would be eliminated.
I am sure that TrumpusMagnus and NorseViking will say that Poles actually killed Russians there.
Not during WW II, all those deaths are attributable to German aggression.
What are you talking about?
What’s that you say bub?
And who is to blame for that aggression? Hitler collaborationist Stalin?
I told you were I was from. Where are you from?
Lots of both pro-Germany/Nazi and pro-Soviet Union/Communist propaganda crap in some posts by a few people..
Re the Warsaw Uprising of 1944, get, possibly on-line, the small Sen. Internal Security SubCom, Sen. Judiciary Com. 1969, entitled “Warsaw Insurrection: Communist Version Versus Facts”, by Subc. communism expert the late David Martin.
Will correct a lot of disinformation fast.
PS: Both Dave and I used to have monthly luncheon with former leaders of the Captive Nations/Poland. One of them was Stefan Korbonski, “A Righteous Gentile” award recipient from Yad Vashem, the Israeli Holocaust remembrance organization. He got it because he not only sent in supplies to the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto for their Resistance forces, but also ARMS.
The other Polish diplomat awardee of Righteous Gentile was the Polish diplomat Jan Karski.
Another SISS study you might find online is their 1970 “The Human Cost of Soviet Communism”, 35 pp., part of the trilogy including the 1972 “The Human Cost of Communism in China”, 28 pp., and my creation/coeditor with Dave Martin, of “The Human Cost of Communism in Vietnam”, 1972, well over 120 pages.
Never heard a reliable source say that Russia lost 30 million people in tWW2. The most cited figure was between 20-23 million, which is a horrible figure in and of itself. Wonder how many were Soviet soldiers who were executed for alleged incompetence (esp. among high ranking military officers, soldiers accused of cowardice, Soviet soldiers whose lives were sacrificed deliberately (but not without rationale) as human landmine exploders.)
The Soviets committed “political genocide when they carried out the deliberate massacre/genocide of the leadership/members of the Polish Reserve Officers Corp in “The Katyn Forest Massacre(s)”. Perhaps up to 50% of those officers were Polish Jews, an added bonus for the Soviets. The Soviets blamed it on the Germans who proved decisively that they did not commit that act.(PS: There were a few survivors of the massacre who wrote books about it).
The US Govt investigations/hearings of and entitled “They Katyn Forest Massacre” consists of several massive volumes numbering as I recall, well over 3-5,000 pages.
The Ribbentropp-Molotov Treaty (and its 3 secret Protocols), openly stated their plans to jointly invade Poland and to divide up the territory between them. The Soviet Union/Russia often refused to let refugees from Poland fleeing the Germans to enter Russia, and would sent them back to a certain death. This happened to many residents of Chelm, including the late Perry Burstyn of Baltimore who was a returnee who survived by living in the forests for years ( I told his story in the Balto. Jewish Week in 1983, along with providing a copy of one of the secret Protocols for its readers to see, often for the first time. Others were able to join the Resistance and even the Soviet created Resistance units if they were lucky enough to be given some kind of asylum in Russia.
Others, like Menachem Begin, were sent to slave labor camps, often in Sibera. No one knows how many Polish Jews and other Poles the Soviets sent back to their deaths. Shades of FDR and the SS St. Louis.
There is no denying that there was serious Polish anti-Semitism before, during and even after WW2 with a serious cost in Jewish lives. It was nothing for Poland to be proud of, but fortunately many brave Poles risked (and often sacrificed) their lives to save Jewish neighbors, friends and strangers, for which humanity is ever thankful.
Just a little history from one whose Jewish European family in Lemberg was wiped out in a 2,500 persons massacre in that city’s sandpit, or were shipped off to Belzec or Auschwitz to be murdered there.
PSS: I met the original German Wermacht commander, Gen. Oberlander, who led the drive into Ukraine. He refused to carry out any ethnic cleansing and was relieved of command and returned to Germany. He was proof that a German officer could refuse to commit war crimes and live. Perhaps he was one of a few who did refuse and live, but the fact that he did it was because he was a professional soldier, not a genocidal maniac like so many of the SS commanders and troops were.
“” “” LOL What was Poland compared to Nazi Germany and the USSR? Yet you think Poland was the bad guy?”” “”
If you use a ‘bad guy’ as a label then right. You can also call the white black or vice versa and be OK with it. It won’t be truth anyway. In normal world a bad guy is a guy doing a bad thing. Germany and USSR are capable to do a bad thing. Why Poland or Vanuatu can’t? Is previously being a ‘victim of colonialsm’ an indulgence? The one doing bad thing is not a good guy. That’s the point.
“” “” The Treaty of Versailles set up certain border. I am agnostic as to where Lviv should be, but the fact is the Western Ukraine People’s Republic was declared as a surprise, and both sides had a legitimate claim. “” “”
So what? Since when ‘legitimate claims’ are solved by the aggressive war? Surprise or not Ukrainian republic was a fact of life.
“” “” At the time, Russia was entirely the USSR.”” “”
USSR didn’t exist in 1920.
“” “” Please provide any evidence of such. The French minister who supported this pact died before it was carried out. Even when it as completed it carried no weight and the French abandoned it in 1936. The Polish had nothing to do with it.”” “”
Do better research. It is a topic too big to elaborate here.
“” “” There was no attack. The Czechoslovak government ceded the area to Poland, who demanded it for a strategic railway junction. Poland and Czechoslovakia had been competing for this territory for some time. And it was no coordinated with Germany.”” “”
Is Crimea Ukraine? There was no fight over it either. There was no real fight between the Polish and Soviets in 1939 too.
“” “” Poland was powerless when being occupied by two great powers.”” “”
Now read my arguments again and show where I claimed otherwise.
“” “” Let me guess, you also believe the Soviets were victims of the Poles in the Katyn Massacre.”” “”
Was it necessary to post this nonsense? Reads Alinsky much?
“” “” Why aren’t they mad at UK? The Brits could have arranged another Market Garden for Warsaw.
Aha, you’ve been called in complete falsehood. The Western Allies wanted to aid Poland, and the Soviets refused their request to use their airbases””” “
The Soviets didn’t use Western airbases too. And that you said was more like a British excuse not to help the AK. If you’d look into the map of the time I have no idea what Soviet bases were needed. There is no evidence of any negotiations about the bases too.
That they expected to do was in violation of agreement between Churchill, FDR and Stalin. The West promised Poland to USSR. Then Churchill decided to take it for himself. The idea was that the Soviets would evict the Nazi and then the British-puppet government pops up. Who thought the Soviets would allow it?
“” “” PSS: I met the original German Wermacht commander, Gen. Oberlander, who led the drive into Ukraine. He refused to carry out any ethnic cleansing and was relieved of command and returned to Germany. He was proof that a German officer could refuse to commit war crimes and live. “” “”
He is also a proof that Wermacht didn’t want the leaders unwilling to perpetrate genocide. You understand who replaced them.
So where is it you are from?
“” “” So where is it you are from?”” “”
How is it important? First you tried to attribute me ridiculous claims to undermine my credibility and now want to attack me based on geography?
Read Alinsky much?
Dispute facts instead. I believe entering personal territory means you can’t.
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