Posted on 06/21/2019 7:22:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
For some, you could hear the sound of war drums. It was coming. Iran had shot down a surveillance drone in international waters. President Trump did not mince words, saying Iran made a huge mistake, though was cagey about military action. He told the press “you’ll find out” when asked. President Trump has taken action before, firing cruise missiles at an airfield in Syria in 2017 after a horrible chemical weapons attack struck the town of Khan Shaykhun. The airfield was the staging ground. Reports trickled in last night that air strikes were ordered against Iran but were halted by Trump. We didn’t know why, but earlier this morning the president tweeted that he aborted the mission because the retaliatory strikes were not proportionate (via WaPo):
EXCLUSIVE: Iran received message from U.S. President Trump via Oman overnight warning of imminent attack on Iran - Iranian government officials pic.twitter.com/kzV1S1MCHC— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) June 21, 2019
....On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not....— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 21, 2019
....proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone. I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world. Sanctions are biting & more added last night. Iran can NEVER have Nuclear Weapons, not against the USA, and not against the WORLD!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 21, 2019
President Trump ordered an attack on Iran on Thursday in retaliation for the downing of a surveillance drone in the Strait of Hormuz but called the operation off just before it was due to occur because it would have caused extensive casualties, he said Friday.
In a series of morning tweets, Trump said he called off strikes on three Iranian sites minutes before they were to be launched because he was informed of the likely loss of life among Iranians.
“We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die,” Trump tweeted. “150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it.”
Such a death toll was “not proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone,” Trump wrote, adding: “I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world.
I've long said you need an IQ around 1 std dev (115) to have a hint that reality is a bit different than what is fed to the masses.
2 st dev (125) is required to really begin gaining complete fluency. At that point - and beyond - you're not only able to understand systems & facts, but are able to position yourself to consistently "win".
I sometimes question why I even bother; I get why the GOPe just chooses to ride the rubes. I guess it's a personal flaw - as much as I criticize faith, I've still got some remnant belief gene that apparently compels me to stand with the regular joes.
No, I know you didn’t. Just expounding on your comment :)
Blow up their oil refineries.
LOL, eventually things will get so bad even the "rubes" are going to figure out something ain't right and will wake up sooner or later, hopefully sooner.
Let me ask this question to the group: when people complain about diversity hires and other unqualified promotions granted for political purposes, isn't there an implicit assumption that those corrosive policies will eventually lead to reduced fighting effectiveness? Or, is there some kind of disconnect between beltway politics and real, operational capabilities? If that is the case, then why complain; who gives a sh!t if it's just theater with no actual impact on forward troops? However, if there is a real world impact that will eventually lead to actual effectiveness, when does the so-called "eventually" actually occur? Somewhere in the far, distant future, long mast all the armchair warriors complaining in the halls of nursing homes, or perhaps sometimes sooner; in fact, like TODAY.
Secondly, anyone take a look around a notice who the top academic students are? In fact, they so dominate GPA and board test scores that discriminatory policies have been established to reduce their representation. Thirdly, anyone remember that DiFi's driver for 20 fVckin' years was a Chinese spy? Lastly, both the Germans & Japanese thought their codes and security measures were secure. N Africa, N Atlantic and Midway were the defeats they suffered for such erroneous assumptions.
So, let throw this out there: what if the moment where we couldn't back up what we thought we could deliver was suddenly discover to be flawed? What if the Chinese - either through independent (hah!) means and/or stolen technology, had our number? What if the Iranians were able to light up & ID our forces when we geared up for the attack?
Don't be so certain and dismiss such a proposition. If you believe degraded capabilities would eventually occur, when then would that exact time occur? And if the time is now, wouldn't it be best to come up with a good excuse to halt the exercise under some plausible story? Let me provide some insight here: if we find out that a commander has been put on leave, that a combat readiness assessment is being conducted, and/if other shake-ups occur up/down the line, what would be your conclusion?
Because the very last thing the USA can afford is losing face in a failed confrontation, and being exposed as a shell of what it still attempts to parade. Demographics, culture and institutions are what make countries, not the name/geographic location, nor some cargo cult of future "citizens" pretending they are the true inheritors of a once great country.
We shall see what the hell happens no?
Being top dog, which we still are, doesn’t mean you won’t meet effective resistance in a fight.
Not sure why you want to pontificate on a declining America so much instead of being part of the solution. Awful lot of words in your post but nothing to offer.
Iran runs Iraq now. 100% owned, lock stock and barrel. They got it done for a grand total of about 6 million investment.
Clever Persians. The only losers in the Iraq War is America.
I don’t know who to trust or believe anymore. But I do know that God is in control and there are no surprises with Him.
Iran’s fleet of very large crude carriers, or VLCCs, and Suezmax tankers -- the largest that can fit fully-laden through the Suez Canal -- has always played an important role in delivering Iranian crude to customers, but it is increasing as insurers and international shipping companies react to the sanctions snap-back. In April, vessels belonging to the National Iranian Tanker Co. were hauling a little under half of country’s crude and condensate exports. By last month that share had risen to around two thirds.
Iran's Reliance on Own Oil Tankers Grows Even as Flows Slump
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-08/iran-forced-to-rely-on-own-crude-tankers-even-as-volumes-fall
~ ~ ~
And as for my recommendation to start capturing or sinking Iran's oil tankers driving up the price of oil, that's not necessarily a bad thing for our own oil production, something we're going to need to rely on heavily in case of Middle East production shortfalls - one way or another, a given in our time.
You said, “striking without human collateral damage”. After all, it was an unmanned drone that was shot down.
So I asked what all these “rich” targets are and now all you come up with are manned targets, except maybe the runways. Not so rich, is it.
I think Trump is right. If you want to retaliate against the drone strike, it has to be unmanned. I would go further and say it has to relate to the flights, manned or unmanned, overseeing the security of the Straits or international space. I have no love at all or Iran, but you are not talking about retaliation for this drone strike, as your original post did.
There is a right way to handle this, and it looks like Trump is doing it. I want Iran to collapse without the Euro-peons thinking they need to get involved. It appears that our Thumb is squeezing even harder, now, and we look composed and in control. It is a good approach, measured and reasonable.
Not at all like your last reply.
I stand corrected then, I had read somewhere years ago they had few tankers themselves, but apparently that’s not the case. Thanks.
Like I said, Iran had no second thoughts about going after our troops in Iraq and elsewhere; and when it wasn’t them directly, they had their proxies going after our troops and killing them. So, I ask you, are our troops not human targets and/or collateral human victims when Iran goes after them?
So, what the heck is the difference if Iran suffers collateral human damage, especially if they are in the military?
We would NEVER be able to attack Iran in defense of our troops or our equipment and overseas interests, if we can never go after their human assets. They win, we lose, according to YOUR strategy and that of the democrats.
Unfortunately, I cannot make sense of your increasingly frantic replies, and you cannot even remotely understand mine.
Fortunately, I think the situation is well in hand in the Trump administration (who is not a Democrat), and doesn’t really depend on either of our understandings.
Trump’s response has been PERFECT. The reason to use an unmanned drone is to ALLOW for a non-escalating response, and Trump is taking advantage of that, now. America looks like it wants Iran contained and secure international shipping and are making every effort to achieve this with the minimum waste of human life. I believe we even have a President (not a Democrat) who feels this way, himself.
I completely sympathize with your views of Iran’s past transgressions. We have had many Presidents since our embassy were taken as hostages who have done NOTHING to obtain redress.
There’s a new sheriff in town named Trump (not a Democrat), now, though. I’m going to put my money on him to finally deal with Iran.
I admire Trump’s choice. He clearly does not want to kill any innocents if he can help it.
I believe in what Teddy Roosevelt said. Speak softly and carry a big stick. Iran crossed a line though. My response would be an attempt to contact the Iranian government and give them a clear warning then I would repeat this warning publicly to the world. Make it clear what the price will be but we have to use caution about taking the risk of escalating into a global war involving China and/or Russia and others.
My warning would be clear. Do not shoot down any more of our equipment or we will retaliate against an Iranian naval base on the coastline. If you should choose to shoot down any manned plane or kill any of our service personnel, the destruction of government facilities in Tehran will follow suit.
It's nice to have a real President again.
Retaliation should take the form of quietly sinking their sub "fleet", without fanfare.
Give your head a shake!
You want dead Americans you and your sons go and get bloody?
PDJT the Commander In Chief has got this and the best interests of the nation in his sights, decisions like this are far far far above your pay grade sonny-hawk.
You’ll find out when we all do what is happening in background right now, when it is safe to tell the American people.
RQ-4 Global Hawk cost $222 million with R&D factored in.
These birds are revolutionizing our capabilities in A&K.
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