Posted on 01/28/2019 4:02:13 PM PST by topher
Do we know something about the perps already?
Officers immediately came under fire from one or two suspects after they breached the door to serve a narcotics warrant, @ArtAcevedo says.
Katrina was fourteen years ago. Whatever group of teenage thugs you want to blame your crimes on are all in their mid-thirties. If fourteen years in Houston hasn’t changed any of them, Houston must be as bad as New Orleans for it’s effects on people. I would be willing to bet that most of those folks have made it back to New Orleans by now. Continuing to place blame on the New Orleans refugees even after all these years is moronic. Houston itself has grown in population and it’s politics have gone straight to hell. That’s where the blame lies.
See above.
There was an article the other day that the Texas Attorney General found 95000 illegals were registered to vote and 58000 of them had cast ballots.
Not yet however there was mention several times that some of the original officers were from the gang unit. The location was also confirmed to be in a predominately Hispanic area.
With what kind of weapon/caliber were they shot? Interesting that there is no mention of this at all...anywhere.
It is estimated that between 25-40 thousand Katrina refugees
have made Houston their home. Who knows how accurate. It
is said many call it “New Orleans West.”
“Whatever group of teenage thugs you want to blame your crimes on are all in their mid-thirties. If fourteen years in Houston hasn’t changed any of them, Houston must be as bad as New Orleans for it’s effects on people. I would be willing to bet that most of those folks have made it back to New Orleans by now. Continuing to place blame on the New Orleans refugees even after all these years is moronic. Houston itself has grown in population and it’s politics have gone straight to hell.”
I’ve observed it all first-hand. I certainly do not place all of the blame on the migration of people from New Orleans, but it is clear that New Orleans was even more violent (per capita) and wicked than Houston.
Yes, those teens grew up, and the adults got older too... if they didn’t die. We all did, of course. But a lot of the crime they brought with them stems from the breakdown of the family. The problem is endemic. You’ve got a lot of kids growing up in homes with no fathers. And their fathers had no fathers to lead them. And the church has not stepped up to help bridge the gap.
And you are incorrect to think that the ones who moved here went back. Some did. But hundreds of thousands made the move permanent.
Houston was already a very wicked city before. We have a giant Planned Parenthood building just on the south side of downtown, right by the University of Houston main campus. They do big business here. The city is also 100% Democrat. The Katrina imports certainly did not diminish the Democrat stranglehold.
Regardless, violent crime had a sudden uptick after Katrina. And murders have also had a big increase in the past few years. In addition to Katrina, we’ve had a lot of folks come here for work and also to get away from more violent cities like Chicago. While these people are no more violent or criminal than those who already live here, large cities seem to attract more and more crime. And Houston has had its share of growth.
So, Katrina is simply one factor. The ones you mentioned are factors as well.
| 2018 - November (Gubernatorial) | |
|---|---|
| Registered Voters |
15,793,257
|
| Voting Age Population (VAP) |
19,900,980
|
| Percentage of VAP Registered |
79.36%
|
| Turnout |
8,371,655
|
| Percent of Turnout to Registered |
53.01%
|
| Percent of Turnout to VAP |
42.07%
|
Until Katrina Tomball was a halfway decent place. Not after.
Thanks Obama. Once the animals are released, it’s hard to get them back into the cage.
There were MANY other cities with far worse numbers than these two, St Louis was number one in violent crime with 1817 per 100,000 and number two in property crimes with 6316 per 100,000.
From the 2015 statistics, these cities were all more violent than Houston or New Orleans: St Louis, Detroit, Memphis, Milwaukee, Baltimore, Oakland, Kansas City, Stockton, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Washington D.C., Toledo, Atlanta, Buffalo, Nashville, Newark, Anchorage, Minneapolis, Philadelphia, Miami, and Wichita. Not many of these cities had any refugees from Hurricane Katrina. Were there folks who came to Houston from New Orleans that committed crimes? Absolutely. However, based upon where these cities ranked in 2015, almost even with each other, the type of people living in each city are of comparable character and are far nicer than many others living in cities across this nation. Stop giving New Orleans a bad rap for being basically the same type of city as Houston, crime-wise.
KHOU - HPD Chief holds press conference at 10 AM ID'ing suspects...HOUSTON — The chief is speaking after yesterday's shootout in southeast Houston that hurt 5 officers. Watch live above and check back for updates.
HPD has identified the suspects killed in yesterday's shootout as Rhogena Nicholas, 58. Man is Dennis Tuttle, 59
“The violent crime rates released from the FBI for the year 2015 indicate that Houston and New Orleans are almost dead even when Houston had 966.7 per 100,000 people and New Orleans had 949.6 per 100,000. Both cities ranked well down the national listings with Houston at 22nd, and New Orleans at 24th.”
Sure... now that all the New Orleans criminals got dumped on us by Katrina.
OK. I’m just kidding. You’ve got some useful facts and data, but they do not show the full picture. Before Katrina, New Orleans had a per capita murder rate of about 5 times the national average as well as cities of comparable size.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1963280/
Crime had been growing rapidly prior to Katrina while the population of New Orleans was declining. See the attached PDF of the study at:
https://digital.library.txstate.edu/handle/10877/3564
A study at the University of Memphis confirms a dramatic (27%) increase in murders in Houston in areas with a large number of evacuees from Katrina:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5a78/d3ddc33a477eb9b98d263ffb02600ee2ff1f.pdf
“However, based upon where these cities ranked in 2015, almost even with each other, the type of people living in each city are of comparable character and are far nicer than many others living in cities across this nation. Stop giving New Orleans a bad rap for being basically the same type of city as Houston, crime-wise.”
Sounds like you are taking my observations personally. I’m not trying to insult anyone or anyone’s town. I’ve lived in Houston most of my life but am not especially fond of it. I agree that Houston and New Orleans are similar in the category of crime. Both cities have a lot of good people and a lot of commendable things in them as well, like you pointed out.
Katrina resulted in a permanent resettling of hundreds of thousands of people from Louisiana (not just the New Orleans greater metro), and a lot of the people who chose to stay were more transient with less family roots and job commitments to go back to. There were many here who were ranting about the Katrina housing vouchers going away literally years after the event. I think the effect is similar to how illegal immigrants tend to bring problems while legal immigrants often benefit us.
As a conservative, I believe people are responsible for their own actions. So, complaining about crime in Houston or New Orleans should not be taken as an insult to ALL of the people here or there. I’ve known good people from both.
Thanks for the stats and lively discussion. I always appreciate my FRiends here for keeping me informed and forcing me to check my assumptions. And even when we do not all always agree, at least we come away more knowledgeable than before.
“The violent crime rates released from the FBI for the year 2015 indicate that Houston and New Orleans are almost dead even when Houston had 966.7 per 100,000 people and New Orleans had 949.6 per 100,000. Both cities ranked well down the national listings with Houston at 22nd, and New Orleans at 24th.”
Sure... now that all the New Orleans criminals got dumped on us by Katrina.
OK. I’m just kidding. You’ve got some useful facts and data, but they do not show the full picture. Before Katrina, New Orleans had a per capita murder rate of about 5 times the national average as well as cities of comparable size.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1963280/
Crime had been growing rapidly prior to Katrina while the population of New Orleans was declining. See the attached PDF of the study at:
https://digital.library.txstate.edu/handle/10877/3564
A study at the University of Memphis confirms a dramatic (27%) increase in murders in Houston in areas with a large number of evacuees from Katrina:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5a78/d3ddc33a477eb9b98d263ffb02600ee2ff1f.pdf
“However, based upon where these cities ranked in 2015, almost even with each other, the type of people living in each city are of comparable character and are far nicer than many others living in cities across this nation. Stop giving New Orleans a bad rap for being basically the same type of city as Houston, crime-wise.”
Sounds like you are taking my observations personally. I’m not trying to insult anyone or anyone’s town. I’ve lived in Houston most of my life but am not especially fond of it. I agree that Houston and New Orleans are similar in the category of crime. Both cities have a lot of good people and a lot of commendable things in them as well, like you pointed out.
Katrina resulted in a permanent resettling of hundreds of thousands of people from Louisiana (not just the New Orleans greater metro), and a lot of the people who chose to stay were more transient with less family roots and job commitments to go back to. There were many here who were ranting about the Katrina housing vouchers going away literally years after the event. I think the effect is similar to how illegal immigrants tend to bring problems while legal immigrants often benefit us.
As a conservative, I believe people are responsible for their own actions. So, complaining about crime in Houston or New Orleans should not be taken as an insult to ALL of the people here or there. I’ve known good people from both.
Thanks for the stats and lively discussion. I always appreciate my FRiends here for keeping me informed and forcing me to check my assumptions. And even when we do not all always agree, at least we come away more knowledgeable than before.
As to how many have been able to return versus remain in the cities they evacuated to, I would bet that most of them have. I will do a little research on this and get back to you. Houston metro is over five million population. The remaining evacuees from New Orleans probably are less than 100,000, maybe not even that many. See post number 28 by Deport on this thread. If it's 50,000 that's only 1 percent of the total metropolitan population. There's a good chance that the muslim population has increased in Houston greater than that as well as the illegal immigrant population over the past 14 years.
Media Misrepresentation of Hurricane Katrina Evacuees’ Effect on Houston Crime Rates
Hurricane Katrina was devastating. The Washington Post claimed that there were “more than 1,300[bodies found]” due to hurricane Katrina. The Big Easy became a mere skeleton of its former self. The population, some of which were generational New Orleanians, was relocated around the country. USA Today reported that, “Houston received about 240,000 evacuees.” As the population of New Orleans shifted to Houston, reports from the media began to raise fears in the residents of Houston that the crime rate in Houston was increasing due to the evacuees. Beginning with such eye-catchers as “eight gang members who moved here from New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina have been arrested as suspects in 11 slayings,” the story was to mark the beginning of a witch hunt and basis for countless newspaper articles. The media put a spotlight on the Katina evacuees by showing them in an unfair light, giving the impression that the murder rate in Houston grew by an enormous amount, and that those increases in crime were due solely to the Katrina evacuees. In fact, the rate of crime only increased by a small amount, and it was not entirely due to Katrina evacuees. The FBI Uniform Crime Report is an official year end tally of crime throughout the United States by year. According to the report, “…in 2005 there were 62 more murders in Houston than in 2004, the rate for rape dropped by 36, aggravated assault dropped by 412 from the previous year, theft was down in Houston by 2,276, grand theft auto was down by 1,155, and arson was down by 7”.
The same report released for the year 2006 found that “in 2004 there were 105 more murders through all of 2006, rape was down by 54, aggravated assault was down by 417, theft was down by 1,661, Grand theft auto was down by 470, and arson was down by 134”. According to this tally, murder increased by a small amount and a lot of the crimes such as theft, aggravated assault and burglary actually decreased in post-Katrina Houston.
The media over-reported incidents that involved Katrina evacuees, often overshadowing other crimes that were committed by Houston-area residents. Much like an urban legend, the basic facts of the story remained consistent, but the details varied and became more sensationalized by each telling. While there was indeed an increase in the murder rate in Houston, highlighting each individual Katrina evacuee that was involved in a crime, be it perpetrator or victim, was not a fair representation of the truth. Trusted sources, such as the Houston Chronicle, reported that there were “65 Katrina-related slayings”. Another article from January of 2006 reports that, “At least 35 percent of Houston’s December increase in homicides . . . directly stemmed from the presence of Katrina evacuees”. It would be easy for a reader to automatically assume that Katrina evacuees killed 65 people. This is not the case, “as Katrina-related [means] either the victim or the suspect . . . evacuated to Houston after Katrina” (Leahy ). Because of these headlines, the claim that crime had increased by “300 percent in Houston!” was essentially being supported. The media opted for sensationalism in its headlines, and the Katrina evacuees paid the price for it.
The city of Houston received much praise for taking in the evacuees and was hailed as The City of Brotherly Love for its welcome policies toward Katrina evacuees. Reports estimate that between 100,000 to 250,000 of New Orleans evacuees were taken in by the city of Houston. However, the media and news reports did not take into consideration that any city that has a population growth of 150,000 people, nearly overnight, is going to see an increase in the overall rate of crime. Furthermore, the city of Houston recognized that ‘”the homicide rate has been much higher in years past, especially in the 1980’s, . . . Even if the number . . . for 2006 hits 400 it’s not a bleak picture for Houston”‘, meaning that even though the police were not at all alarmed by this slight increase in murder rates, the media continued to add fuel to the fire.
The victims of hurricane Katrina were ostracized because of this negative publicity. The evacuees were no longer welcomed by the citizens of Houston. The National Housing Institute published its findings that, “a survey conducted by the Houston city government in January revealed that roughly one-fourth of the city’s hurricane evacuees were living in FEMA-funded apartments in high-crime, high-poverty neighborhoods on the city’s southwest side”. In a document from the Inspector General’s office it is reported that FEMA placed as many as “100,000 evacuees . . . in 34,000 apartment units” in places known to harbor gang and drug activities already, the media also did not take any of that into account in their headlines.
The debate about crime rates in Houston began almost immediately after the Evacuees arrived. Twenty-three days after the evacuee’s stepped from their buses and into the city of Houston, news articles began to appear. The Houston Chronicle quoted Captain Dwayne Ready as saying, “‘we recognize that the homicide rate is up as far as raw numbers and as well as percentages relative to the population, . . . We also recognize that Katrina evacuees continue to have an impact on the murder rate”’ Another article’s headline read, “Louisiana Gangs That Fled Katrina Heighten Houston Murder Rate”. However, a research project was undertaken by five criminologists, and once they took the actual numbers from the FBI’s U.C.R. data into account, they reportedly “found no rise in the rates of auto theft or offenses you’d expect if the dispossessed were responsible for fueling crime”. The same paper that boasted headlines such as “Homicide rate on track to be worst in a decade” was eventually forced to admit that their own grossly overstated sensationalistic headlines were not true. In the end, when the truth was revealed, it got no major front page billings, the articles were neatly tucked away. Perhaps one of the most permanent aspects of this ordeal was that, in the mind of a Houston denizen, what stood out most about the Katrina evacuees was that crime increased by 300 percent. It is not likely that they read the article in the Houston Chronicle that finally stated the truth:
“Gary Blankinship, president of the Houston Police Officer’s Union, said he thought the Houston Police Department had kept track of Katrina-related crime. (Mrs. Weiner, I can’t move this tab over, but this is one quote. I don’t know how) ‘”Seems like there was more crime, and the officers talked about it,”‘ he said, “‘but I don’t have any actual data.’ Varano cautioned media and public officials not to blame evacuees for crime. “‘To say a group came in to a place like Houston and created a crime problem seems to be passing the buck”‘ Varano said.
After all the facts and figures were speculated upon by news organizations around the country, it ultimately reduced to no organization having any credible data.
Others say that the crime rate in Houston during 2005 to 2006 was up by more than fifty percent, without any official data to back those numbers up. Other cities for those years reported increases as well. “‘Many communities across the United States … also reported increases in violent crime between 2004 and 2006′” notes the study, including a 30% increase in aggravated assault in cities such as Baltimore and Detroit”. Moreover, the sociologist Varano goes on to contest, “…if there was any effect, it was a modest one'”. A modest increase in crime rates does not account for the blatant exaggerations reported to the public by the media. To get a more direct idea of the media portrayal, take a look through some of the sources from which I drew my quotes:
Chen, Te-Ping. http://criminaljustice.change.org. 16 Febuary 2010..
Gelinas, Nichole. “Katrina Refugees Shoot Up Houston.” City Journal (2006).
Laundry, Ryan and Elizabeth L. Rankin. Violent Crime Rates In Houston Before and After Katrina. Sowthwestern Econimc Review: reserch Notes. Shreveport: Sowthwestern Econimc Review, 2008.
Osunsami, Steve. http://abcnews.go.com. 16 November 2005..
Pinkerton, James. Katrina’s Impact on crime questioned. News Report. Houston: Houston Chronicle, 2010.
Ready, Captin Dwayne. Homicide rate on track to be worst in a decade Jennifer Leahy. Houston: Houston Chronicle, 21 October 2006.
Roberts, Joel. “Houston Cops Link Crime To Katrina.” 15 August 2006. http://www.cbsnews.com. .
Carlisle, Kristin. “It’s Like You’re Walking But Your Feet Ain’t Going Nowhere.” NHI 147 (2006): 2.
“The vast majority of these folks were hard working, decent, religious types and they should not be tarnished because someone wants to stigmatize them.”
No doubt. I think the same could be said for most cities and the nation as well. Our cities and nation are being corrupted and destroyed by many different forces aligned against us. This is the “if you can keep it” part of our founders’ warnings.
“If it’s 50,000 that’s only 1 percent of the total metropolitan population.”
Actually, New Orleans proper has around half a million, but the greater metro is about 1.5 million.
Houston greater metro is about 6.5 million. There are about 2 and a quarter million who live in the city limits. Houston metro area is very spread out.
“There’s a good chance that the muslim population has increased in Houston greater than that as well as the illegal immigrant population over the past 14 years.”
That’s a very solid argument. Would make an interesting study.
While I question the stats used (compared to the research links I posted earlier), I do agree with the assertion that local media hype contributed to stigmatization.
This is what a lot of blacks face in America. Statistics paint an unfavorable picture of blacks. The media tends to feed into this. And blacks get unfairly stigmatized. This trend also has profound psychological consequences on young blacks growing up as they try to figure out their own identities.
There is a correlation between crime and Katrina evacuees. However, it has nothing to do with race or the city they come from. It coincides with an event which selectively filtered people who are predominantly dependent on the government for food and shelter.
The government is functioning as a religious charity and displacing this traditional function of the church and other religious organizations. The government is woefully ineffective at charitable and religious functions because it is not part of its charter. It is not what Government exists for. It is exactly what the founders were trying to flee from.
Churches and charities have much greater ability to understand the needs of individuals, verify these needs, and determine how deserving these individuals are since there are never unlimited resources. The government tends to attract graft, fraud, laziness, wastefulness, and endlessly grow programs that are counterproductive in every way. Government charity is endless because it has an endless supply of tax revenue and no need to rely on voluntary charity or a business strategy that generates profits.
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