At Jerry Brown's climate summit, one deadline will overshadow all the others

Do like the WETBACKS, just steal a current registration tag from another car!

I’ve always been taught that gasoline was one one the most efficient energy storage medians. Your numbers, which I have not seen before but have no reason to doubt, really quantify that efficiency well. And they show how absurd the current state of electric car mania is.

Damn; it’s hard to find that many MORONS in one place at the same time, isn’t that whats called a TARGET RICH ENVIRONMENT?

I’ve always been taught that gasoline was one the most efficient energy storage medians. Your numbers, which I have not seen before but have no reason to doubt, really quantify that efficiency well.

The numbers tell an interesting story about the lunacy of the left if you look them up and do the math.

The EPA rated the range of Tesla cars with 40 kwh batteries at 139 miles. Most owners reported less than that especially after the cars got a few miles on them. I used the 40 kwh battery as an example because its energy storage capacity so closely matches that of a gallon of gasoline.

The 85 kwh battery (approximately 80 kwh usable when new) weighs 1200 pounds and holds the energy equivalent of approximately 2 gallons of gasoline.

To most greenies a range of close to 140 miles on a full charge under absolutely optimal conditions might sound pretty good. Of course the devil is always in the details. Anything less than optimal conditions and that range can drop off dramatically. The other thing that one should consider is that there are inefficiencies in electric power generation, electric power transmission, charger inefficiencies, and battery charging and discharging inefficiencies. A modern coal fired or natural gas electrical generation facility has about 40% thermal efficiency.

Coal contains approximately 6150 kwh per ton but at typical modern powerplant thermal efficiencies a ton of coal generates approximately 2460 kwh per ton. Drop that by at least half for transmission, charger, and battery inefficiencies we are down to 1230 kwh per ton using a Tesla battery. So if you do the math 1230 / 40 = 30.75 40 kwh charging cycles. 2000 pounds of coal/ 30.75 = 65 pounds per charging cycle. So it takes 65 pounds of coal burned and 186 pounds of CO2 produced to charge that expensive, heavy 1 gallon Tesla energy container just 1 time. If you are really, really lucky this 65 pounds of coal will take you and your Tesla almost 140 miles down the highway on flat ground with no wind.

The actual energy efficiency of a Tesla car from coal fired power plant through multiple transformers, hundreds of miles of transmission lines, charger and battery heat loss is not really that great. A Tesla is considerably less energy inefficient than a much lighter economy car. And this does not even begin to take into account the amount of energy required to mine the ingredients refine them and manufacture the battery and its components to.

Current Tesla cars are not economically viable compared to gasoline powered cars even with government subsidies. So lets be honest... The only really "valid" reason to buy a Tesla is if you want to impress an "environmentally conscious" airhead of the opposite sex.

Thermodynamics was not my favorite engineering course back in college, but even I understood your well presented argument. Wish you could see similar explanation on media so people could see how ridiculous electric cars are. I do think there is some use for hybrids. They seem to make more sense, taking advantage of stored momentum and not needing external charging. But I am not convinced they are worth the extra up front cost compared to a gasoline compact.

The gathering in San Francisco, which is spearheaded by Governor Brown, will bring leaders and civil society groups, using their private jets and limos, from around the world to discuss ways that states, cities and businesses can work together to reduce their emissions.

Thank you so much for your comments, but you probably should not encourage me.

Although the published information on the initial energy loss converting coal, natural, diesel, or other fuels to electricity is consistent and can be figured into these types of calculations. The published information varies greatly on what the average power loss actually is in transmission through transformers into the power grid and back at the local level in the series of step down transformers up to the one in front of your home and then even the service drop and wiring within your home.

This is because these numbers can and do vary greatly on a case by case basis depending on the region, the ambient air temperature, and the actual load on the transmission conductors. These numbers cannot really be calculated precisely except on a case by case basis where all of the variables are known. Maybe one day in our “digital” world with networked metering this will be economical and worthwhile to figure.

As outside ambient air temperatures increase and the load on the power grid gets closer to it's "maximum" capacity the resistance and temperature of the lines increases and their efficiency and heat loss can increase greatly. The same goes for the transformers and even the service drop to your home and your house wiring. So we have this impacting the actual efficiency of using and charging electric vehicles in the summer.

But I failed to mention in my previous posts the most important limitation variable on Lithium Ion battery capacity for a good percentage of the United States during several months of the year. Lithium Ion batteries can be charged only when their temperature is between 32F and 113F. If you attempt to charge them if the ambient temperature of the cells are below 32F or above 113F they can and likely will be damaged and can become dangerous. They can also be damaged if the ambient temperatures of the packs are below freezing and you try to put a load on them although this is not as likely because they basically stop working at low temperatures. So during cold weather electric cars can just plain become unusable altogether.

If the car is kept inside a heated garage and you are able to drive it to another heated garage things will probably work out alright, but if you make a stop along the way things could become iffy within a short period of time depending on the outside air temperatures. So we can conclude also that it is not a good idea to use your electric car to drive up into the mountains to go skiing.

Some people may have noted that when it is warm outside that the temperatures inside your car become far warmer. This can be a problem for electric cars. If the batteries are warmer than 113F and you put a load on them bad things can and do happen. The extremes we all know of are exploding cell phones and other battery powered electric powered devices. But irreversible damage can also be done to your electric cars extremely expensive battery pack.

I have been restoring a rare 1942 Cadillac. It has a cabin heating system, but this was an option even for Cadillac before WWII. These days most of us expect to have our cabin temperatures to be within a certain and fairly precise temperature range for our comfort. This requires additional energy to provide, but in gasoline powered cars waste heat from the engine is used in the winter and the energy used by the air conditioner in the summer typically barely makes a dent in your mpg. It is a different story altogether for electric vehicles where this additional power drain can be a large percentage of the power being used for propulsion and can dramatically reduce your range, especially in the winter.

In conclusion, I doubt whether most people interested in purchasing an electric car will be swayed by my numbers or my observations. For those people I have saved this nugget for last. If you buy an electric car or even an expensive hybrid with an expensive battery... pay for whatever insurance policy is made available to you at the time of purchase for that battery. These types of policies are usually a waste of money, but not in this instance. This is not a mature technology, so bite the bullet on this one or you could be very sorry.

I doubt whether most people interested in purchasing an electric car will be swayed by my numbers or my observations.

Not to 'encourage' you, you may not sway anybody who is bound and determined to reduce their carbon footprint and save the planet, yet you have made the most sound arguments for the gasoline vs electric car debate I have seen. Glad you took the time to put your thoughts to word.

Thank you again. I am sure there are much better written articles out there from more qualified individuals. Alternative energy has been an interest of mine for nearly 50 years. Unfortunately, wind and solar, the primary options being pushed by the left are dead ends outside of very specific applications.

We have friends who live off the grid using a combination of solar, wind, and a propane powered backup generator. It works for them, but they have told me many times that despite the exorbitant initial cost from the power company and the government subsidies they received... it still would have been much cheaper and easier to have just payed for the transformer and run the wires a mile down to the main road.

We live in an area where we have frequent power outages in the winter. All of our neighbors and us have backup generators. I converted ours to natural gas years ago and have metered the hell out of it. Surprisingly, the results of my record keeping gave me a much better understanding of power generation concepts that would seem to apply on a much larger scale.

Our little 5.5 kwh generator uses almost the same amount of fuel producing 25% of its rated electrical capacity as it does at 75% of its rated capacity. On a larger scale if you need a coal or natural gas powered electrical generation facility of a certain capacity for your peak demand. Running it at lower capacities when intermittent wind and solar facilities are generating power saves much less fuel than what one might expect.