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To: savagesusie
You really should study Natural Law Theory so you understand Locke

The following support my position rather than yours:

"MEN being, as has been said, by nature, all free, equal, and independent, no one can be put out of this estate, and subjected to the political power of another, without his own consent. The only way whereby any one divests himself of his natural liberty, and puts on the bonds of civil society, is by agreeing with other men to join and unite into a community for their comfortable, safe, and peaceable living one amongst another, in a secure enjoyment of their properties, and a greater security against any, that are not of it." - John Locke, Second Treatise of Government

"The Lockean society which has a govern­ment, therefore, is not one which is value­ free or without virtue as held by the revi­sionists. Rather, Lockean society assumes values and is distinguished from others only in the locus of its values and virtue, which are placed in individuals within society as opposed to the state. This distinction be­tween society as the repository of virtue and the state as only a means to regulate coer­cion, indeed, is what defines Lockean soci­ety. Hence, in this type of regime, the gov­ernment is given the very limited, though important, function of only defining and regulating coercion. Otherwise, it is to allow virtue to develop spontaneously in society as the result of free decisions of individuals, since society is the higher repository of virtue, honor, esteem, reverence, etc. which are the ends of life." - http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2017/02/john-locke-harmony-liberty-virtue-donald-devine.html

31 posted on 11/22/2017 7:26:07 PM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: NobleFree

Yes. Exactly. Without virtue, there is no respect for the individual nor any respect for Natural Rights or private property. Without virtue in people, you can never trust your neighbors or participate in voluntary agreements. If people are evil—they will kill you or steal your property, etc. etc. if there are no Just Laws and even if there are Just Laws-—there will still be evil people. Founders understood the Nature of Man (Natural Law Theory).

Government is Evil (All the Founders knew this) because government is force. That is why is has to be limited—contained—and why we had separation of powers (which don’t exist any more in our Post Constitutional government).

Common Law was only a Christian concept along with individualism and free will which tailored the Natural Law of Sophocles in Antigone with Aristotle’s logic and the Nichomachean Virtues and Cicero’s Rule of Law—Universal Truths (Objective Truth). It was only a matter of a thousand years before Christian Virtue superseded Aristotle’s virtue system. Kant’s Duty system competed with Aquinas and Locke’s “moral” system which as GK Chesterton stated, was the beginning of the end of Reason-—to the Postmodernism (total dehumanization and irrationality) of Marx and Darwin.

Individiualism (Christianity) v. Collectivism/chaos The USA was the only government to base their justice system on individual natural rights only from God. All other cultures destroy the individual for the collective (group)-—and now we do too. There are Marxist “group” “rights” which don’t exist in our Constitution. Justice is an individual only concept and never applies to groups. “Social Justice”-—no such thing-—Justice needs no modifier and by putting one in front of it, destroys the meaning.


34 posted on 11/22/2017 8:27:53 PM PST by savagesusie (When Law ceases to be Just, it ceases to be Law. (Thomas A./Founders/John Marshall)/Nuremberg)
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