[Kaslin]

Victor Davis Hanson Column

Please Freepmail me, if you want to be added, or removed from the ping list

[PeteePie]

Even after the Stalingrad disaster, the Germans could’ve recovered had Herr Dumbass listened to his generals.

[Gay State Conservative]

SOMETIMES THERE ARE WARS YOU WISH BOTH SIDES COULD LOSE!

[ctdonath2]

“Stalingrad” always seemed a forever ago.
Now I’m old enough that it proceeded me by only half my current age.
That’s not long at all.

Don’t get comfortable, folks.
History has a habit of happening a lot faster than you realize.

[allendale]

What Americans should always remember that if the Russians at such a great cost to themselves had not fought the Germans so long and so well and not destroyed the best of the German army, American casualties in WWII would have been much Simply put, many Americans who live today, simply would not have come to exist.

[oh8eleven]

Excellent read ...

[SkyDancer]

“Enemy At The Gates” was a fanciful narrative of that battle.

[2banana]

One of the big “ifs” of WWII

General Paulus was a sub average commander. He made so many really basic mistakes.

Panzer units tied up in taking a city.
Not trying to break the siege immediately. Instead, he continued with attacks at Stalingrad.
Etc.

One change here in command could have changed the war.

[Oatka]

Back in the 70s I went to a talk about the prevention of nuclear wars.

At the Q&A part, a guy asked one of the speakers if China could drop a nuke on either the US or Russia so each would attack the other.

The speaker said “The first bomb is free.” and there was an audible gasp from the audience.

He explained that there was a tacit agreement between the two that there wouldn’t be an automatic return fire if a large explosion occurred on their territory.

That came about when the Russians were doing some construction in the Stalingrad suburbs and one of their bulldozers uncovered some munitions. When they investigated, they discovered 20,000 tons of artillery shells the Germans had left behind. Had the ‘dozer stuck a shell in the wrong place, the equivalent of a Hiroshima-type explosion would have been triggered.

I question whether the Germans had that much ammo left, but it was a good story.

[dfwgator]

Other thread, here

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3603089/posts

[BobL]

I guess VDH is now a paid Russian troll too. LOL.

[BobL]

“In part, it had no choice. Germany was intent on not just absorbing Russia, but wiping it out or enslaving millions of its citizens.”

And what, exactly, was Stalin doing to the Russian people at exactly the same time...same thing!

In fact, one book that I read on Russia during the war (us paid Russian trolls have to learn their history well) mentioned that the people there, initially, somewhat welcomed the invasion, as Stalin was actually at his worst (if you can believe that) just before the invasion. He was basically rounding up, torturing, and then shipping off anyone who had a parking ticket, or was accused by their neighbor of J-Walking. Hitler didn’t seem much worse, and the roundups did slow down once the attack started. In fact, there was a train full of Russian military officers heading for the gulags (and certain death) that got turned around once Germany attacked...seemed these ‘anti-revolutionaries’ (as Antifa calls us, and them) still had some value back home, as in to defend their country.

[PA Engineer]

An interesting point of history that many have forgotten.

Operation Uranus (Stalingrad) was suppose to be the secondary defensive battle with Operation Mars the Primary encirclement. This was Zhukov's Greatest Defeat: The Red Army's Epic Disaster in Operation Mars, 1942 "

Stalingrad was critical because of the failure of Zhukov. I read the book and honestly had to put it down a couple of times. The Russians tossed their soldiers into a complete meat grinder.

COUNTERPOINT TO STALINGRAD, Operation Mars (November-December 1942): Marshal Zhukov's Greatest Defeat

Soviet Operation Mars is the most glaring instance where the historiography of the German-Soviet War has failed U.S..3 Originally planned for late-October 1942, but postponed until 25 November, Operation Mars was intended to be a companion piece to Operation Uranus, the code-name for the Soviet's Stalingrad strategic counteroffensive. By conducting Operations Mars and Uranus, the Soviet Stavka [Headquarters of the High Command] sought to regain the strategic initiative on the Eastern Front and set the Red Army on the path to total victory. Planned and conducted by Marshal G. K. Zhukov and a host of other famous Soviet generals and appropriately named for the God of War, Operation Mars formed the centerpiece of Soviet strategic designs in Fall 1942. Its immense scale and ambitious strategic intent made Operation Mars at least as important as Operation Uranus and likely more important. In its fickleness, however, history has forgotten Operation Mars because it failed, while it has extolled Operation Uranus because it succeeded.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

” a huge invading German army at Stalingrad on the Volga River.”

Not the Volga River; the “Nieva” river (not sure of transliteration)