Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Gun Control Debate 101
Townhall.com ^ | November 8, 2017 | Bob Barr

Posted on 11/08/2017 11:25:01 AM PST by Kaslin

Reading the social media posts of liberals following the latest mass shooting tragedy, occurring over the weekend in the small Texan town of Sutherland Springs, one might notice a pious gloating to their collective outrage. Rather than just the reflexive recitation of hatred at the National Rifle Association and congressional Republicans generally, liberals also lashed out against Christians, viciously blaming “prayers” for the lack of gun control efforts in Congress. It was almost as if they wanted to be at the scene of the horrific crime – a church – just to wag their fingers at the dead, for not heeding their snarky memes about gun owners and discredited studies from Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown for Gun Safety” group.

As victim-blaming goes, the Left has reached a new low; hard as that is to imagine.

There is, however, a reason Congress has yet to fully address the problem of mass shootings, but it is not prayers, PAC-money from the NRA, or any of the accusations peddled by gun control activists. It is because, despite the same, trite demand from the Left for an “honest discussion about common sense gun reform” after every mass shooting, the Left appears to have no idea how to (or interest in) engaging such a conversation.

Having served both in Congress and as a board member of the NRA, I have never met a serious person who is absolutely opposed to any limitations on firearms ownership or usage. However, this is often how gun owners are characterized when they refuse to engage the Left in a gun control debate on its terms; which is more or less standing there while they rant about the purposeless of individual firearm ownership, and how other countries do not have gun violence problems like America does.

In the interests of helping foster a meaningful and constructive conversation on firearms, there are at least three basic rules to follow:

First, parties must decide if they are discussing solutions for mass shootings specifically, or general gun violence. And, even here, further clarification must be made as to the definition of mass shootings. For example, does the terminology include indiscriminate “mass shootings” in public places like those in Texas or Las Vegas, or the broader definition that Bloomberg’s “Everytown” uses to pad its stats (which includes “any incident in which four or more people, not including the shooter, are killed with a firearm”)? While most gun control rhetoric follows close on the heels of any multiple shooting event, little of what is debated has relevance to the specifics of the tragedy. There is a distinct difference between mass shootings and, say, gang activity that involves multiple homicides; and, solutions to each issue will be just as distinct and complex. Actually and appropriately defining the problem is the only way to reasonably debate effective solutions.

Second, recommendations must not be vague; they necessarily must be specific, with the burden of proof on those calling for the curtailment of current freedoms. Arguing, for example, that “America needs common sense gun control,” or that “it needs to be harder for people to buy guns” are far too vague to be of any use beyond worthless rhetoric. What does “common sense gun control” entail? Or, how specifically would have making it harder for millions of Americans to purchase guns stopped the Las Vegas shooting? (And it is now apparent that the Texas church murderer was able to purchase his killing instruments because government bureaucrats failed to put his prior domestic-violence court martial in the government database.) If these questions cannot be answered directly and accurately by those proposing these ideas, then they are not sufficiently serious to warrant further exploration.

Finally, unless engaging in some abstract discussion of firearms, there are inescapable facts that cannot simply be waved away. For starters, the Second Amendment is real; and unless and until it is struck from the Constitution through the process of amending that magnificent document, the ruling a decade ago by the Supreme Court concluding clearly that it protects a fundamental and individual right to keep and bear arms, remains a cornerstone of any reasoned debate.

Moreover, this natural right is deeply imbued in American history and culture, meaning millions of law-abiding Americans will be impacted by any changes to gun laws, and will not take such changes lightly. There is no magic wand to change this reality – nor should there be -- but if gun control advocates wish to try, have at it. In the meantime, stop wasting our time with empty calls for “an honest debate,” which to this point have been anything but honest.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: guncontrol; secondamendment; sutherland; texas

1 posted on 11/08/2017 11:25:01 AM PST by Kaslin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

“This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.”
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined...”
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

“I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

“To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.”
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance ofpower is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.”
- Thomas Paine, “Thoughts on Defensive War” in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775

“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

“The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

“For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.”
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

“If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.”
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.”
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789


2 posted on 11/08/2017 11:28:49 AM PST by Bob434
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

All we need is universal background checks, fixed 7 round magazines, registration followed by banning and confiscation of all semi-auto firearms, then.......


3 posted on 11/08/2017 11:32:23 AM PST by umgud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

What Constitutional Right haven’t the RATs abused?


4 posted on 11/08/2017 11:38:31 AM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bob434

Even if one supported removing 2nd Amendment rights altogether, how do leftwingnuts think it’s possible to confiscate/eliminate all the guns currently in circulation?

There are so many guns in circulation that even with no 2nd Amendment Rights (e.g. after gun confiscation), the criminals will always be able to get a gun.

There are probably many unregistered guns and many guns that the “confiscators” would never be able to find.

The cat is so out of the bag. So how do they think “absolute gun control” that some advocate, will be effective?

Typical shallow-thinking left wing fascists.


5 posted on 11/08/2017 11:38:52 AM PST by AlanGreenSpam (Obama: The First 'American IDOL' President - sponsored by Chicago NeoCom Thugs)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: AlanGreenSpam

it is their practice and desire to follow the following- limiting in the narrowest sense possible- rendering society nearly unable to defend itself- not totally, but nearly

“This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.”
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803


6 posted on 11/08/2017 11:43:38 AM PST by Bob434
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
We've ALREADY HAD THAT CONVERSATION, and the 'gun confiscators' LOST !
We need REAL COMPREHENSIVE GUN RIGHTS CLARITY Legislation right now.That should send the 'gun-control Zombies into an immediate heart attack !
7 posted on 11/08/2017 11:50:45 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Let's see, Texas killer Background check required ..... check

Background check responses

Felony conviction question 11c .. not checked
Ever been in a Mental Institution question 11f .. not checked
Dishonorably discharged question 11g .. not checked
Domestic violence conviction question 11i .. not checked

FBI NICS database updated by agencies that processed all 4 areas above ... whoops ... my bad .. we forgot.

So now ALL legal gun owners according to the liberal geniuses must now pay.

8 posted on 11/08/2017 12:04:59 PM PST by redcatcherb412
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AlanGreenSpam

“Even if one supported removing 2nd Amendment rights altogether, how do leftwingnuts think it’s possible to confiscate/eliminate all the guns currently in circulation?”

They don’t have to get them all. Just enough of them that they can reduce us under tyranny without undue risk to themselves.


9 posted on 11/08/2017 12:32:43 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: AlanGreenSpam

Perhaps we are looking the wrong angle. Perhaps we should look at ammo taxing smaller rounds like the 22 at 4 cents a round and the larger rounds at 5 dollars a round.


10 posted on 11/08/2017 12:57:36 PM PST by pepsionice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

The NRA. 5 million members and not one mass murderer.

Hmmmm...

Seems like all or most mass murderers are democrats, progressives, socialists and communists. And they for the most part use guns.

Hmmmmm....

5.56mm


11 posted on 11/08/2017 1:04:28 PM PST by M Kehoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

When a person, of any political and/or religious persuasion, stands and starts hotting at individuals, it is the duty of every American citizen, not to run and hide, but to shoot back and, if possible, neutralize the shooter, for if we teach that life is sacred, then it is of the highest calling to stop the taking of such life.


12 posted on 11/08/2017 1:34:34 PM PST by Terry L Smith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bob434

More:
In the Dred Scott decision Justice John Taney concluded that if “persons of the Negro race” were considered citizens they would have the SAME RIGHTS as others. “The right to enter and leave states..the right to hold political meetings...and THE RIGHT TO CARRY ARMS WHEREVER THEY WENT.”

Then there is TEXAS..”It(Mexico) has demanded us to deliver up our arms, which are essential to our defence, the rightful property of freemen, and formidable only to tyrannical governments.”


13 posted on 11/08/2017 2:40:07 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: redcatcherb412

Uncle Joe knows why...
http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/18/biden-to-nra-we-dont-have-the-time-to-prosecute-people-who-lie-on-background-checks/

BUT, you or I make an error on one and suddenly they will have the time!


14 posted on 11/08/2017 2:42:28 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: AlanGreenSpam

Guns can be made from plumbing parts!


15 posted on 11/09/2017 5:32:34 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: AlanGreenSpam

https://scout.com/military/warrior/Article/The-WWII-Sten-Gun-Was-Cheap-and-Dirty-101459358


16 posted on 11/09/2017 5:34:56 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Then there is TEXAS..”


17 posted on 11/09/2017 5:37:30 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: AlanGreenSpam

The left-wing fascists want to go door to door to seize every gun, and despite the illegality and unconstitutionality of it, they don’t care. But, when it comes to going door to door to remove illegal immigrants, they say it can’t be done, too cruel, too inhumane, could cause massive problems and would be too expensive.


18 posted on 11/09/2017 1:32:57 PM PST by spacewarp (FreeRepublic, Rush's show prep since foundation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson